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Post by Stripes on Feb 8, 2009 22:29:01 GMT
io9.com/5022250/why-steven-moffat-isnt-all-thatThis shows that moffat does show his views in his work. This person has some good arguments. I am not too thrilled that Moffat is taking over. I am afraid he may put women back a few years on this show. Just when Who was starting to get smart, opinionated, indepent companions like Martha and Donna, Moffat could possibly single handily bring them back to "NO DOCTOR I CAN'T DO ANYTHING!!! HELP!!!). ... I got my point across.
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Post by jjpor on Feb 8, 2009 23:51:42 GMT
Yeah, it's clear that RTD has some issues, as they say, that he likes to go over in his work with some regularity. He also apparently reuses the same character names over and over again, which is kind of interesting... To be fair, I think we all have our prejudices and axes to grind, even if we are not consciously aware of them, and it seems natural for them to show up in these ways. I'd argue Moffat maybe goes beyond that in being daft enough to share them with the media, but I still don't think he would be consciously sitting down to write sexist material; if it creeps in, I suspect it does so subconsciously. I dare say you can find evidence of sexism/racism etc. in most works like this, if you're looking for them. I write fiction, and I suspect that somebody could find all sorts of wrongheaded assumptions and stereotypes in that if they wanted to. I don't think it would be possible for them to come out with an ankle-spraining useless-girlie sort of companion now, even if they wanted to (which I'm not convinced anyone does); it would just seem wrong to modern audiences, I think; I don't think people would accept it. More likely are characters like Jenny who are subtly sexist in a variety of ways while giving a deceptive appearance of being strong female characters. Anyway, I fully realise that I am the very last person to go pontificating on this subject with anything like authority, so I will desist before I end up jamming my foot in my mouth or any similarly unpleasant mishap.
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Post by clocketpatch on Feb 9, 2009 0:49:22 GMT
Good link Newton. I'm not sure I agree with all of the essay points, but I'm nodding at enough to make me worried. Also, the comments at the bottom are a very interesting read (don't you just love this part of the internet age; the bit where you can read the story and then see all of the reactions and see the counter-arguments and all of that?)
Anyway, he's written some good stuff. My biggest fear with Moffat though ISN'T that he'll be sexist, but that he'll keep reusing plot-devices. "Everyone lives" anyone?
...but then, given the sonic screwdriver, maybe I'll learn to accept that too.
anyway, I'm still intrigued and waiting to see what comes up next. One commenter made a point about how Moffat's episodes fit together like jig-saw puzzles, and I agree. Also, that's something which I've got a personal love for in stories; the jig-saw, puzzle it out, not a bit out of place, plot.
And, whatever happens Empty Child/ Doctor Dances will remain my all time favourite Doctor Who episode (and if Nancy was a sexist character, well, then I'll have to eat my shoe)
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Post by IMForeman on Feb 9, 2009 16:31:11 GMT
Yeah, it's clear that RTD has some issues, as they say, that he likes to go over in his work with some regularity. He also apparently reuses the same character names over and over again, which is kind of interesting... To be fair, I think we all have our prejudices and axes to grind, even if we are not consciously aware of them, and it seems natural for them to show up in these ways. I'd argue Moffat maybe goes beyond that in being daft enough to share them with the media, but I still don't think he would be consciously sitting down to write sexist material; if it creeps in, I suspect it does so subconsciously. I dare say you can find evidence of sexism/racism etc. in most works like this, if you're looking for them. I write fiction, and I suspect that somebody could find all sorts of wrongheaded assumptions and stereotypes in that if they wanted to. I doubt Moffat sits down at his computer to write and goes "how can I be sexist today?" but like you said, he holds certain prejudices and that doesn't mean we should sit back and blindly accept them. I feel that people have a responsibility to be aware of what they write, even if it's accidental. More so if they're in charge of a incredibly successful television show for families. But, yes, you can find evidence of certain conscious or unconscious ideologies in anything if you look hard enough, and very often you're wrong, but that's why discussing it and sharing theories is a good thing. I am afraid he may put women back a few years on this show. Just when Who was starting to get smart, opinionated, indepent companions like Martha and Donna, Moffat could possibly single handily bring them back to "NO DOCTOR I CAN'T DO ANYTHING!!! HELP!!!). ... I got my point across. You mean like how one was criticized for not being a certain other companion (coincidentally, the second non-white companion to suffer the treatment, and though I'm sure that wasn't intentional, the subtext is there) and after leaving without even getting an apology, is quickly placated with a replacement man to marry? Or how the other one is forced by against her will to wipe her memory? (I don't have that much of a problem with it, but it's something other people have brought up.) Or how her mother continues the RTD theme of being a bitter harpy, while her grandfather is lovely and understanding? I seem to have hijacked the thread, sorry about that. Maybe this would be better somewhere else?
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Post by Stripes on Mar 1, 2009 1:58:38 GMT
I know Doctor Who isn't about the Doctors look. It about his customs, quilty acting and some kicktastic storylines. But I have a problem, I can't help but think how ugly the new guy is. I mean he is REALLY ugly. His haircut looks it came from the 80's, which is a pretty [expletive deleted] era imo. I know they cast him because he is young and will keep the teenage girls watching but I can see his looks scaring them away. I can't get over it.
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Post by IMForeman on Mar 1, 2009 2:54:34 GMT
If they were choosing someone based on looks, surely they would have gone with someone more conventionally good-looking? I suspect he'll become a big heartthrob, anyway. I mean, David Tennant looks like a weasel. A rather attractive weasel, mind you (and that's one of those phrases I never saw myself typing up), but a weasel nonetheless. Look at how well he's done for himself.
I've now read the interview in DWM and apparently Matt thought he came across as too manic and over-energized in the audition. That's not a good thing, is it?
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Post by clocketpatch on Mar 1, 2009 5:32:04 GMT
he's ugly as sin, well, maybe ugly as pretty-boy emo sin, or something, but like IMF says, David Tennant looks like weasel (and I'm so glad not to be the only one who thinks that) and Tom Baker looked like... well, nothing human anyway (though, considering the character, that worked out very well for him) (and, for the record, I think TB was kind of attractive during his hey-day, not smexy mind, but that one scene with the poet shirt... mmmm....)
Anyway, I'm still reserving judgement on Matt. If one good thing can be said about his appearance, it's that, like TB, he has a certain alien-ness about him. At least, in those promo pics he did. I'm hoping that he'll get a better costume though; not the black suit from the pics, and hopefully *crosses fingers* he'll have a hat of some sort, because I think the Doctor is always at his best when there is a possibility of hats... or, um, well, Nine hadno hat, but I still loved him, and Eight, and... it's late.
yibber yabber yibber... Boo!
... I haven't been getting much sleep lately
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Post by primsong on Mar 1, 2009 5:32:22 GMT
The whole spastic Matt in the interview thing is not a good thing, to my thinking only if he also acts that way. I'm pretty burned out on the whole manic/hyper Doctor thing now... I'd like him to just...chill out a little bit.
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Post by clocketpatch on Mar 1, 2009 5:40:59 GMT
The whole spastic Matt in the interview thing is not a good thing, to my thinking only if he also acts that way. I'm pretty burned out on the whole manic/hyper Doctor thing now... I'd like him to just...chill out a little bit. I was going to say something to that effect also, but got carried away on the tired lala cart. I'd like to see a bit of a more subdued Doctor take up the mantle next, not emo-serious or boring monotonous mind, but maybe something like REG!Nine? (seriously, those of you who have not seen Scream of the Shalka should watch it right now. there is a reason I keep wishing for REG to be the Doctor 'for reals')
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Post by Stripes on Mar 1, 2009 15:42:48 GMT
he's ugly as sin, well, maybe ugly as pretty-boy emo sin, or something, but like IMF says, David Tennant looks like weasel (and I'm so glad not to be the only one who thinks that) and Tom Baker looked like... well, nothing human anyway (though, considering the character, that worked out very well for him) (and, for the record, I think TB was kind of attractive during his hey-day, not smexy mind, but that one scene with the poet shirt... mmmm....)
** HAHAHAHA ugly as sin. I like that saying. I can see the weasel part in DT. At least he is better to look at than this new guy. Hell anyone is better to look at than this guy.
I can see why TB would be kind of attractive, I kind see it in Three too. Hell The guy who played one, the picture of him when he was younger showed how good looking his once was. I can see why people think the UNIT team is nice looking, and lets not forget Five and Eight. I see many people into Five since he is such a pretty boy. Eight too. Poor six and seven, they have no chance.
.... Now many of these guys I am not really into but I can see why someone would be into them. It's Like WHO finds these not so pretty people that the rest of the world would pay not attention too, to only show how that they can be attractive. If you get what I mean.That is why Michael Emerson should play the next doctor!
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Post by clocketpatch on Mar 1, 2009 20:18:19 GMT
Grief! I take a shower, miss the bus to work, and then make fruit salad and come on here to placate myself. Hmm... the boss is on vacation though, and I don't think the sub-in will mark me absent, but then, he's a bit of an... ****
Anyway, Newton, your comments about Seven and Ten made me think of something I heard somewhere once "The only difference between Seven and Ten is that one has weasels down his trousers and the other is a weasel wearing trousers" hmmm...
like TB, I find McCoy strangely attractive at times...
Oh! And I found this: community.livejournal.com/doctorwho/4479918.html?#cutid1
... I love him in that hat, and I love how the artist has captured both his hair and his insanely long neck
... and Ten's high-larious pot-kettle backgound comment, and Fivey's eyeroll... brilliant!
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Post by Stripes on Mar 1, 2009 20:28:20 GMT
Grief! I take a shower, miss the bus to work, and then make fruit salad and come on here to placate myself. Hmm... the boss is on vacation though, and I don't think the sub-in will mark me absent, but then, he's a bit of an... ****
Anyway, Newton, your comments about Seven and Ten made me think of something I heard somewhere once "The only difference between Seven and Ten is that one has weasels down his trousers and the other is a weasel wearing trousers" hmmm...
like TB, I find McCoy strangely attractive at times...
Oh! And I found this: community.livejournal.com/doctorwho/4479918.html?#cutid1
... I love him in that hat, and I love how the artist has captured both his hair and his insanely long neck
... and Ten's high-larious pot-kettle backgound comment, and Fivey's eyeroll... brilliant! I LOVE IT! I LOVE IT! HAHAHAHA
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Post by jjpor on Mar 1, 2009 22:43:23 GMT
*That is a pretty hilarious drawing there...
"Pretty-boy emo sin" does sound rather, er, sinful, doesn't it? Yes, I think Eleven could do with a hat of some description. Now, as for what type of hat...
Tommy B was, I think, quite attractive in a strange way, without actually being handsome. I'm not really qualified to comment on this, but yes I see what you mean. I think he had charisma, anyway, whatever that is. "A certain animal magnetisme," as I remember Mr Burns once saying (in relation to Homer, actually, bizarrely). I can even see why some people might like Six, but Seven...as much as I like Sylv, he didn't have much down for him in that respect.
Now, I'll bow out of this discussion, because it's starting to raise disturbing recollections of 70s Pr0n Colin, and God knows, I don't want all of that to start up again. *shudder**
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Post by clocketpatch on Mar 4, 2009 1:28:02 GMT
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Post by Stripes on Mar 4, 2009 4:47:56 GMT
I must live in a different world because what he is wearing isn't unusual. Well for me anyway.
His eyes are too close together which bother me.
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Post by clocketpatch on Mar 4, 2009 4:52:47 GMT
There are hippies at my school who dress like that, mostly, but the purple vest is a bit much I think.
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Post by merrythemad on Mar 4, 2009 14:28:57 GMT
being a hippie I do believe I take umbrage to being compared to the aforementioned bloke stylistically. Not ALL of us have fashion issues, I make most of my clothes, well, I did before I was a fulltime college student and mommy.
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Post by clocketpatch on Mar 4, 2009 14:36:20 GMT
I am deeply sorry for any offense. Let me say, in hopes of redemption, that the 'hippies' at my school are a phenomenon unto themselves. Also, we have the 'Ugly Sweater Brigade' and the 'Hideous Hats Club'
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Post by Stripes on Mar 4, 2009 21:51:31 GMT
There are hippies at my school who dress like that, mostly, but the purple vest is a bit much I think. I have seen people in my city wear the vast.
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Post by jjpor on Mar 4, 2009 22:15:38 GMT
*Well, you know what they say about people whose eyes are too close together... Clocket is right; he always looks vaguely bewildered in real life. I hope when they do some more promo pics he can manage the same hilarious astonished/intrigued/horrified scowl that Tennant does to perfection...
I don't know about purple cardies, but in the post above when I said I thought he needed a hat but wasn't sure what sort of hat...well, THAT's the hat!*
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