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Post by clocketpatch on Jun 1, 2011 1:44:37 GMT
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eve11
UNIT Red Shirt
Posts: 70
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Post by eve11 on Jun 1, 2011 1:59:16 GMT
is that no just on the name or on the synopsis? TBH I didn't read past the name. I don't really want to know what's going on.
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Post by clocketpatch on Jun 1, 2011 2:24:47 GMT
It's the whole synopsis (which I didn't read either). I do, however, have it on good authority that this episode contains Rory riding a motorbike, and Rory punching Nazis, but of which are awesome... still, no amount of awesome is going to combat that title fail. WTF!?!?
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eve11
UNIT Red Shirt
Posts: 70
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Post by eve11 on Jun 1, 2011 2:32:16 GMT
Right I meant your "No, just no" is a reaction to the episode title and not what you read in the synopsis. I have seen tell that in episode 8 there are two Amys in addition to the motorbike-riding Rory (one may be a ganger again?). And I wonder if it dovetails in to the beginning of the series with the Doctor in one of the Stalags trying to tunnel out?
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Post by clocketpatch on Jun 1, 2011 3:20:37 GMT
Confirmed. The actual episode looks fun. The title, uh... seriously, this IS a joke right?
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eve11
UNIT Red Shirt
Posts: 70
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Post by eve11 on Jun 1, 2011 18:36:43 GMT
Maybe it's a play off of a line in episode 7 or something. The SFX people said the title was so unexpected it made them grin... that title totally would not make me grin. No clue what's going on.
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Post by jjpor on Jun 1, 2011 21:11:23 GMT
It did make me do a bit of coffee-spitting double-take like you see in the movies, I'll admit. Hard to disagree with the sentiment, but... * I'm assuming it's not the Doctor and companions on the eponymous dictator-busting mission, because while the let's-go-back-in-time-and-whack-Adolf thing is a time-honoured science fiction trope, it's not very Doctorly is it? Although I'm sure Ace would do it, given half the chance...*
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Post by Maggadin on Jun 1, 2011 22:49:43 GMT
*yawn* Try harder, Moffat. On second thought, please don't....
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leamichelle
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Post by leamichelle on Jun 1, 2011 23:48:20 GMT
I'm surprised at the negative reaction the title's getting! Goodness me ... I looked at it and went, "oh ... that can't be right." It seems to be tongue-in-cheek and somewhat sarcastic. That said, just looking at the summary, I think it has something more to do with the paradox surrounding such a trope. You know, going back and killing Hitler, so the badness never happened, but if the badness never happened then there would've been no reason for you to go back and kill Hitler.
Moffat writes for television like various Who writers have done for novels ... it scrapes that edge RTD didn't scrape. (Jury's still out on if he scraped off too much ...) I expect it will take us all by surprise. xD
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Post by Maggadin on Jun 2, 2011 10:55:45 GMT
Well, yes, and that's the thing. I think that the oh-so-clever titles like that should be kept to novels and audios.
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leamichelle
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Post by leamichelle on Jun 3, 2011 21:09:25 GMT
Maybe you're right. But maybe the episode will justify the title in some previously unforeseen manner. I suppose anything's possible, as I've come to expect ... ;D
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Post by merrythemad on Jun 3, 2011 23:18:25 GMT
I'm surprised at the negative reaction the title's getting! Goodness me ... I looked at it and went, "oh ... that can't be right." It seems to be tongue-in-cheek and somewhat sarcastic. That said, just looking at the summary, I think it has something more to do with the paradox surrounding such a trope. You know, going back and killing Hitler, so the badness never happened, but if the badness never happened then there would've been no reason for you to go back and kill Hitler. THIS^^^ C'mon people, it's GOT to be a tongue-in-cheek jab at the trope and perhaps even what's-his-nose's law of time travel (see what I did there?). While, for me at least, the jury is still out on Moffat, I HATE seeing such negative reactions so far ahead of time, I mean we don't even know how AGMGtW will turn out, for all we know the title will make perfect sublime sense.
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Post by Maggadin on Jun 4, 2011 1:06:52 GMT
Yes, but I don't care if the title ''makes sense''. It's just not a very ''whovian'' title, to me. ;D
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Post by clocketpatch on Jun 4, 2011 15:14:15 GMT
I'm excited for the episode itself, I'm less excited for the inevitable fall-out if that turns out to be the right title. The problem is, it doesn't matter if the title turns out to be accurate and funny and related to the trope in context - and I've no doubt it will be and will make all of us grin - the problem is that it's going to cause the same knee-jerk reaction to many other people, and some people can get very vocal... when they're getting vocal about how Journey's End was the worst episode ever because OMG clones! The general population outside of nerdom doesn't take notice. This title, I think might have people taking notice.
Granted, any publicity or so they say. And I could be entirely wrong and out of touch with everything (very probably yes). I just think it's a bad idea is all.
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leamichelle
Code/Graphics Moderator
Of the Cult of the Chicken of Rassilon (thanks LL!)
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Post by leamichelle on Jun 4, 2011 17:50:56 GMT
Oh, no doubt, and you're probably right. I didn't say I much cared for the title, but I was simply trying to defend the poor thing against the onslaught. ;D It is a bit bold, and maybe there's really no defending it, but at the end of the day, I will still read a good book - even if the cover is awful. xD
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Post by merrythemad on Jun 4, 2011 19:01:07 GMT
Maggie, I concede, it does seem funny and Who usually has more cryptic-sounding titles, definitely a fair point.
Clocket, I guess that's true too, people will freak but honestly, in many ways, they could use this episode to address the elephant in the TARDIS, all those times he isn't somewhere, when, really he could be, though I doubt it. I maintain it's a quip, and that's why I can see maggie's issues, it does seem more of a quip, or even (dare I say) a stunt than a title.
I wonder/worry/am excited for/and biting my nails over this coming fall, for sure.
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Post by magnusgreel on Jul 2, 2011 8:26:59 GMT
It would've been interesting, if "Let’s Kill Hitler" had just been a reference to a classic SF time-travel paradox that even non-SF fans know by now, without any actual Nazis being involved in the story. That could have been a bit clever. Killing Hitler a a sort of cool metaphor.
It seems we'll have Nazis coming out of our ears though, apparently. Good God, Nazis are just so easy. Want "evil" in a story, trot out the Nazis. They were for real, you know.... they actually existed, and did and thought those horrific things. Every time we throw them into some lame TV plot as cliche villains, that's one more opportunity lost to try to figure out why people like this came to exist. They were REAL. There are Nazis around even now!
It's not impossible to do good SF with Nazis, but I don't like this group's track record, and just the very choice of Nazis sends a big fat signal loud and clear, that we're on the cliche train, and can't get off....
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kirkg
Auton Daisy
"Hello, Sweetie!"
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Post by kirkg on Jul 2, 2011 18:42:46 GMT
By the way, totally side topic here.... there's a new book coming out this July that translates the personal diaries of a mid-level German justice worker from 1938-1945. It's causing a stir internationally because IN HIS OWN WORDS, the man comments about what's going on in the german population, state, politics, etc and he laments the fact that the average citizen can do nothing to hault the attrocities. The question has been debated for years and years whether the common man knew what was going on in Germany at the time...and this book of translated diary (kept by the family decendants for years and preserved) would seem to answer the question that, yes, the population DID know and found themselves powerless against the machine. Should be fascinating reading.
As for "Let's Kill Hitler", yes Magnus, that was my thought as well, that it was going to be an exercise in the SF paradox... but may be both... first an example cited to Amy & Rory, and then an actual attempt to do so.
My concern with including Nazis in modern day entertainment is that they are either played as baffoons and jokes (Hogan's Heroes, Indiana Jones) or as blackest night (Star Trek, Twilight Zone). I thought the Tom Cruise movie "Valkrie" was striking a nice balance however.
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Post by Maggadin on Jul 2, 2011 19:16:46 GMT
It's a bit risky to state that the ''population'' ''knew'' out of the words of a single man, though. A justice worker would likely have had more insight than your average citisen. I do agree that that the average German found themselves ''helpless'' in some ways. It's not like the people who did resist got off with a slap on the wrist, after all.
What I don't like about the sound of this episode is that I'm afraid we'll just end up with another Victory of the Daleks, historical character-wise. Not the mention the somewhat queasy-inducing (to me) BRITAIN! BRITAIN! BRITAIN! jingoism. That was the only thing I didn't like about The Doctor Dances, as well, really.
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Post by johne on Jul 2, 2011 21:39:25 GMT
Not the mention the somewhat queasy-inducing (to me) BRITAIN! BRITAIN! BRITAIN! jingoism. If they do have anyone saying "BRITAIN! BRITAIN! BRITAIN!" it had just better be Tom Baker
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