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Post by clocketpatch on Jul 3, 2011 0:51:18 GMT
It does sound like an interesting read.
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Post by magnusgreel on Jul 3, 2011 7:38:09 GMT
It does sound like an interesting read. Yes... and I've been wondering the same thing about Japan, and any resistance the population might have had to their regime. The one and only book on tape I found on Japanese history helped a little, not a lot. Anyway, the words of one man show what that one man was thinking, not necessarily much more, unless he talks about what others thought. I like the idea that they might start talking about the old time-travel question, what if you killed Hitler as a child (that's usually it), or as an adult (more acceptable), and then someone says, hey, we're in a time machine, let's f'in do it! Then an argument ensues, the Doctor's persuaded, just barely... to go back to do something short of killing him probably, but it's hard to be soft on Hitler... That conversation would be fun, but nothing after that would be.
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Post by johne on Aug 27, 2011 20:27:23 GMT
I've now seen it. I can appreciate the skill with which it was done, and some moments made me laugh. But... ] In the opening sequence, I thought the person making their entrance in the sports car would turn out to be River. And sure enough, it did, though in rather a different way. Slice her how you like, she still gets on my nerves. On reflection, I think she didn't annoy me so much last year because she wasn't the subject of the stories she was in. This year, she is.
And I see there still is a regeneration limit, though we're not told what it is. But no temporal grace.
Disappointed that the 'Pilot ident' phrase used in the books for voice commands to the TARDIS didn't show up here. Also that the Doctor's guilt trip only included NuWho companions -- I could have done with Tegan or Peri showing up.
ETA: I was inspired to add this to my little song about Rose.
[
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Post by aquabluejay on Aug 28, 2011 4:44:49 GMT
Oh... That was actually quite interesting. Also it turned out to have very little to do with Hitler... Did anyone else notice that they never did let him out of that closet? I loved how demure Rory was about the whole thing, all his lines were just simply love.
Poor Doctor in this one...
Crazy ass Psyco River!!!
I noticed the Doctor kept yelling "You shot my TARDIS!" in a way that sounded rather like it could have been "You Shot my Wife!" instead. XD
^^
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Post by jjpor on Aug 28, 2011 18:00:16 GMT
Oh... That was actually quite interesting. Also it turned out to have very little to do with Hitler... Did anyone else notice that they never did let him out of that closet?^^ There's a joke in there somewhere... ;D * I like the song, johne. Funny because it's true... I too was a bit disappointed with the lack of oldschool companions in that sequence. For a brief, mad moment, I thought that they'd actually got one of the actresses back for a thirty-second guest cameo, in which case I'd be willing to let the "new companions only" thing slide for practical reasons, but when it turned out to be just reused footage of them I was definitely thinking "so why not a bit of a fanw*nk montage for my amusement and squee?" I haven't felt so disappointed since SJA had that episode with the Mona Lisa and not one City of Death reference. ;D
I liked it, actually. I do tend to agree with johne that this series seems to be getting more and more River-centric, and it is a bit galling for those of us who don't like her as much as some fans (and Moffat!) seem to. But I thought this was something of a return to form after my disappointment with AGMGTW (and I've had another thought about that which I will put on the appropriate thread shortly). Thing is, and I don't want to sound like I'm bashing her or anything, but most of the bits I really enjoyed were the bits that "River" (or Melody, at this point?) wasn't really in. You know, Amy and Rory making crop circles and robot duplicates being driven around by Trekkish crews of miniaturised people, and "shut up, Hitler!" and all that. And Rory getting his Ace Rimmer (or Indiana Jones. Or Steve McQueen in The Great Escape) on, punching out German soldiers and nicking their motorbikes ("Can you ride a motorbike?" "I expect so. It's been that kind of day."). And imitating Amy's accent (and Moffat isn't a Scots Nat I'm guessing from some of his self-deprecating fun-poking at his native land).
In fact, a lot of the things I thought were good about this were Rory moments. I've said before, give Arthur Darvill a BAFTA, but if this bloke was a footballer, Alan Hansen on Match of the Day would be calling him "immense" and demanding he get picked for England. He goes from strength to strength. As, to be fair, does Karen Gillan. And they're both a bit more entertaining than River, for me anyway. Not that psycho-River shooting up Berlin with her stolen machine-guns and her and the Doctor constantly outsmarting each other in that scene in Hitler's office weren't worth watching, and I do quite like Alex Kingston, although I think she's better at the humour and the emotional/drama stuff than she is at the heroic/villainous grandstanding, but I agree River is definitely over-exposed by this point, as they say.
Although she did look good in that Luftwaffe tunic. Historical rule: the baddies always have the nattier uniforms. It's true.
But what does this mean for the tangled Doctor/River timeline? Isn't the first time one of them meets the other also the last time? In which case, no more River, ever? Because the stuff like her not being able to regenerate any more and being able to fly the TARDIS and even, depending on how you interpreted Eleven whispering in her ear, her knowing the Doctor's real name, were all pretty neatly tied up. But I refuse to believe that Moffat won't have her playing some pivotal role in the series finale, so... And presumably the Doctor hasn't yet done things like taking her to see Stevie Wonder in 1814 or meeting Jim the Fish or visiting Easter Island or any of that other stuff. So the timeline thing continues to make as much sense as it already did, which is little.
Very much enjoyed Rory and Amy and not-yet-River growing up together. Poor Rory... ;D And Matt Smith continues excellent. He's the real deal, he is, as I keep saying. I think Eleven is much more sympathetic and admirable when things aren't going his way and he's under pressure. Smith probably doesn't do "triumphant" as well as he does "defiant" (and I know Eleven's embarrassing excitement at his victory in AGMGTW is meant to be embarrassing because we the audience have already guessed he's actually about to encounter a setback, just like in The Pandorica Opens, but it's still one of the things that grates about that episode).
Another thought - I've already made baseless guesses about Moffat's attitude to Scotland, so I may as well ask: does anybody else reckon he must have had some sort of religious upbringing against which he later rebelled? Lots of clergymen and religious orders and religious imagery in his stories, and most of it not necessarily shown in a positive light. A thought, anyway.
So yes, not perfect by any means but a nice way to get back into S6, I thought, and with some genuinely pleasing elements to it. Like Magnus, I would have liked to see a meaty ethics-of-time-travel story about killing Hitler - it's a bit of a hoary sci-fi cliche but I think a nicely dramatic Vincent and the Doctor-like tale could be made of it (Adolf and the Doctor? ), if it was the sole storyline being explored. It would be a difficult thing for a show like NuWho to pull off, though - a definite gamble. And while I personally would like ton see NuWho taking more risks with themes and storytelling, in some ways doing it like this, with Hitler as a walkon character and the scenes involving him pitched at the level of Allo Allo-style comedy was the safer bet for all sorts of reasons.
But yeah - next week...will Mark Gatiss finally produce the proverbial good Doctor Who script we sort of know he has in him somewhere? Tune in and find out...*
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Post by aquabluejay on Aug 28, 2011 19:44:04 GMT
We will be quoting all of Rory's lines from this episode forever now. All the time. For little to no reason. Especially in AP European History, I expect.
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kirkg
Auton Daisy
"Hello, Sweetie!"
Posts: 442
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Post by kirkg on Aug 28, 2011 20:11:00 GMT
It's a bit risky to state that the ''population'' ''knew'' out of the words of a single man, though. A justice worker would likely have had more insight than your average citisen. I do agree that that the average German found themselves ''helpless'' in some ways. It's not like the people who did resist got off with a slap on the wrist, after all... Yes, and that's part of the way this book is being promoted and pitched. That for the first time, we get the view from inside an educated, common man's head. And that this will answer the question that's been 'debated' for years.... But onto episode 8.... WOW! I mean, it took me an extra 24 hours to get to view it, but wow, I'm really impressed! I can't wait to rewatch it with Viron so that we can talk about it and what it means to the series. I'm constantly impressed by the high level twists and turns and thrills that this 11th generation brings to the table. So much different from earlier seasons. There's a really good article that discusses this ("Why Doctor Who Survived All this Time") over on Comborn, if I'm not mistaken. Though I have not seen all the seasons, they have given me very good insight into what each new season and re-invention of the series means...and how it got to where it is today. Enjoy.
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Post by aquabluejay on Aug 28, 2011 23:30:53 GMT
Jeremy and I have just decided that whomsoever can legitimately work "Shut up Hitler," into a sentence during class at school will officially win at life.
Back to class again Monday morning then, and let the games begin!
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Post by aquabluejay on Aug 29, 2011 10:48:45 GMT
Did anyone else notice the eerie resemblance between the head of the 'Sonic Cane' and the Master's old TCE?
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Post by Maggadin on Aug 29, 2011 17:02:56 GMT
In which case, no more River, ever? If only life were that fair.
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Post by johne on Aug 29, 2011 22:00:35 GMT
* For a brief, mad moment, I thought that they'd actually got one of the actresses back for a thirty-second guest cameo, in which case I'd be willing to let the "new companions only" thing slide for practical reasons* ] They could have got Sheridan Smith in there, at least. I'd have liked a Lucie cameo.[
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kirkg
Auton Daisy
"Hello, Sweetie!"
Posts: 442
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Post by kirkg on Aug 30, 2011 2:45:33 GMT
Did anyone else notice the eerie resemblance between the head of the 'Sonic Cane' and the Master's old TCE? What's that?
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Post by aquabluejay on Aug 30, 2011 3:02:42 GMT
It's a classic who reference. I'll have to make you watch a few five eps with me...
It's this random weapon that the old master used to use, long before someone dreamed up the lazer screwdriver... ahem... You haven't finished season three though, so you can look forward to that one...
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kirkg
Auton Daisy
"Hello, Sweetie!"
Posts: 442
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Post by kirkg on Aug 30, 2011 3:31:31 GMT
What a nice touch, how River get's her old blue book journal, don't you think?
Are they selling those types of diaries in England yet? If not, they should...
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Post by jjpor on Aug 30, 2011 21:44:34 GMT
Oh, I'd be very much suprised if somebody somewhere wasn't (while kicking a cut of the proceeds back to the Beeb, of course)...
*That was the thing about this episode though - if they really were sticking strictly to the reverse-timelines thing, then that's River tied up with a big neat bow. Diary explained. Catchphrase explained. Origin story explained. Career as an archaeologist in the future explained. TARDIS-driving skillz explained. Conspicuous non-Time Lordliness in her initial appearance explained. Even the knowing the Doctor's name thing (quite possibly) explained. So stick a fork in her, she's done. And in a way, that I'd argue isn't entirely painful to those fans who don't share Moffat's apparently deep and abiding love for the character. So, result, Moffat - and some payoff at last, pat yourself on the back! Yet looking at the title of the last episode of S6...well...not as neat as that apparently. I can't really say I'm surprised...*
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Post by Maggadin on Aug 30, 2011 21:51:37 GMT
On River's timeline: Moffat said in an interview that she wasn't speaking literally but ''poetically'' when she said they were travelling in opposite directions. More's the pity, really. I wish they could just kill this tired storyline already
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Post by librarylover on Aug 31, 2011 0:10:02 GMT
What a nice touch, how River get's her old blue book journal, don't you think? Are they selling those types of diaries in England yet? If not, they should... Someone . . . not naming any names or anything . . . but someone you may know (who has the initials LL) has a handmade journal like River's, which she bought on Etsy. Crafty capitalists FTW!
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kirkg
Auton Daisy
"Hello, Sweetie!"
Posts: 442
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Post by kirkg on Aug 31, 2011 2:42:16 GMT
LL or JJ? (Gosh this feels like the old Superman letter's pages again.... Lois Lane, Lorie Lemura, Lana Lang, Lex Luthor, etc...)
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