A Good Man Goes to War

[clocketpatch]

Here we have the trailer: www.youtube.com/v/fqwl7w2KdaE&rel=0&hl=en_US&feature=player_embedded&version=3

Notice Rory in his Roman soldier get-up. This can only be awesome. I hope we get a Roman Rory action figure out of this, because the lack of one is getting me down.... actually, the lack of ANY Rory action figure to my knowledge.

Also, Cybermen? Whaaaaa?

And the minute long "prequel": www.youtube.com/v/JiB3SdlQ6sI&rel=0&hl=en_US&

Please, please, please don't let it be the Doctor's daughter, please. Though, whoever's baby it is, of course the Doctor's pissed; you've kid-napped his companion and been playing him a fool for months **

I've also got say "The Mid-Series Finale!" sounds incredibly stupid. You can't have a finale in the middle of something. It just doesn't work like that.

ETA: here's the spoiler ridden cover of the next copy of DWM: twitpic.com/53ruqz lmao. That's actually brilliant

[johne]

May 28, 2011 22:53:53 GMT clocketpatch said:

ETA: here's the spoiler ridden cover of the next copy of DWM: twitpic.com/53ruqz lmao. That's actually brilliant

Heh. Some years ago the Times diary had a running gag about "Fascinating Historical Questions To Which The Answer Is 'No'". I think this may be one.

[jjpor]

Yes... *Although define "rescue" under these particular circumstances...

Not only Roman Rory (Roranicus Pondicus as Eleven called him in The Almost People, making me lol a little), Clocket, but Roman Rory swordfighting unless my eyes very much deceive me! ;D Against those blokes in the hoods from the prequel I guess, who I've seen toting swords around in some publicity stills (yup, my anti-spoiler policy has slipped a little since getting floored by that cliffie on Saturday). Although there was another publicity pic of a woman hanging out with the blue-skinned chap, done up in Victorian duds and packing a pretty large, dangerous-looking samurai sword... I immediately went "Romana!" , although I always do at mysterious-looking female characters, so...

But yeah, I kind of hope it isn't the Doctor's baby, or that the Silents or whoever haven't used her as a surrogate for birthing something horrible, because those would both be pretty unpleasant on several different levels.

Those soldiers in the trailer have what looks like the same omega symbol as the Clerics in the Angels two-parter. Omega, hmm...?

And we're going to find out who/what River really is? About time!

And I notice that the woman telling the Doctor he's going to rise higher than he ever has isn't, as we first thought, River - doesn't sound like her, anyway. Is it the mysterious Katana!Woman? Is it the Time!Child from Day of the Moon, all grown up? Are they one and the same?

And whither eyepatch!Lady. Your guess is as good as mine...

Still, I can't wait to see this one - but I'm already feeling the anguish of the mid-season break...it's going to be a long wait...*

[clocketpatch]

I'm wondering now... (possible spoilers?)

If there aren't going to be two children/babies in this story. The Doctor giving his "Not a child, she's a WEAPON!" shouty bit reminded me somewhat of his initial reaction to Jenny in The Doctor's Daughter and katana woman IS rumoured to be named Jenny. It makes me wonder...

You know what would be trippy? If Jenny had been captured and had a child who's name started with S... Just saying.

As for Amy... I have zero clue what's going on there. Zip, nada, nothing. Though I'm beginning to wonder if Amy and Rory are going to leave at the cliffhanger and then the rest of the series will be following them before they left the first time (before The Impossible Astronaut) to tie all of the threads together for the ending in episode thirteen where we get both departures at once smacked at us with much weeping and timey-wimey.

Uh... I've no idea where any of that came from. If I turn out to be right about any of this I'll be playing the lottery more often, heh.

[eve11]

I believe in the trailer the Doctor says, "This child is NOT A WEAPON!" and then Kovarian says, "she will be". also did you watch the clip? It includes Rory saying the line "They've taken Amy, and our baby" so that is at least some evidence that the baby is Rory's

[clocketpatch]

I think you're right on all accounts Eve. I have seen the trailer (multiple times) but I generally get distracted by Rory "Where. Is. My. Wife." and his Roman sword fighting awesomeness. All the rest just kind of blurs in comparison.

[clocketpatch]

Let's make lists!



Thing which I found Awesome things in that episode:

1. Rory. BAD ASS LONE CENTURION RORY! *dies* I was getting nervous in the pre-credits sequence when Rory was describing her baby's father and was just NO THEY DID NOT! I'm not fond of the audience manipulation but the Where. Is. My. Wife. pay-off made my insides go all aflutter, verily

2. Strax the Sontaran Nurse, who is now my favourite Sontaran of them all. Well, him and the Sontaran in that SJA episode who turned out to be the good guy. I can see how the Sontarans would've decided Strax's clone batch was defective, and he did kind of defeat the point of the Sontarans in general, but I wibbled at him dying.

3. Madame Vastra and Jenny. I want a novelization or an audio or, barring that, fic expanding on those two and on the slight bit of back story we got. Also, it's good to know that the Doctor has saved at least ONE Silurian.

4. "Good men don't need rules" I shivered.

5. "Doctor, do you have children?" "No." "Did you have children." "Yes, my hair is real." That was Susan's crib wasn't it?

Things which I really could've done without:

1. Since when does the Doctor call in debts and raise armies? I know there was supposed to be some kind of point to that about how the Doctor is straying from his roots, but they didn't need to drum it in so much. It felt very VERY out of character.

The spitfires flying in from WWII was a WTF. The fact that he apparently enlisted the Black Spot captain and his 8 year old son... what the what the WHAT?! And the fact that he was enlisting people against their will. Blue-skin guy was clearly terrified, and rightly so, and then he seemed all fine later. What the what Doctor?! Were you using your hypno mojo? I hope not...

2. The Doctor lying to Lorna Bucket while she lay dying. I know it was a white lie. I know that the Doctor's morality is shifty as a lizard playing poker on quicksand. That scene did not sit well with me. Though, if I'm honest, Seven would've done it.

3. THERE IS NO HANKY-PANKY ON THE TARDIS!!!!!!!!!!

ahem.

Now that I've gotten all of that out of my system. The version I saw was cut off at the end. There were no trailers or end credits or what not. So... I'm hoping I didn't miss anything relevant while also pretending that the resuming episode in the fall doesn't actually have the title I think it has (okay, I've seen the confirmation of it, but my fingers are still firmly in the ears).

River! uh... did she just tell her father that she's going to have a threesome with the Doctor?

I wasn't particularly surprised by the revelation that she's Amy and Rory's daughter. As far as subtle identity reveals go, that's right up there with the whole "the baby is the mother, your mother is the baby, Ace - your mother is the baby!!!" carrying on in Curse of Fenric. And if I can't fault it in curse then I'd be a hypocrite to fault it here.

So... she's a Time Lord-ish? Does that mean that we might be seeing younger incarnations of River travelling backwards with the Doctor? Or, uh, something?

I am all confused and not understanding any of this. I am torn in my reactions and, well, torn. But, whatever is going on, I do know one thing:

I feel very, VERY badly for the Amy/River shippers in fandom. I know that they exist. I know that they are semi-numerous. I know that whatever shock-argh reaction I may have had to that episode... it cannot be as bad as theirs.

[librarylover]

** I think the episode was really good, despite the fact there was so much going on. I'm a little disappointed that the rumor about who River is turned out to be true, but I can live with it. At least the Lucy Saxon rumor was the red herring I thought it was.

Roranicus Pondicus kicked a$$. The Victorian cross-species lesbian couple kicked a$$, and I look forward to the fanfic. Aside from the reference to lactating, the Sontaran nurse was great.

Have they announced a definite date for Season 6B? (Moffat made it canon!) The time until then will be long. **

[johne]

Jun 5, 2011 3:19:31 GMT clocketpatch said:

Now that I've gotten all of that out of my system. The version I saw was cut off at the end. There were no trailers or end credits or what not. So... I'm hoping I didn't miss anything relevant

Heh heh heh...

[Stripes]

Heh, I guess I am the only one who was shocked with the end.

***I do not read spoilers and I barely pay attention the doctor who series now so I guess I feel for it.

I am finding hard to believe that River is Amy children... mainly due to the fact that River is half black. ... that and i just don't ee it.

The whole let's have 50 different aliens in one shoot is getting old. Stop it. The whole, the Doctor is sooooooooo awesome, he is the best, he is powerful, he is God!!!! is getting worse each epsiode. Fans thought RTD was bad... well Mofffat is worse when it comes to squeeing over the Doctor.

The baby being gooo also made me sigh.

What is with the random cybermen?

Pretty much I didn't like this episode. It was not as bad as I thought it would be when I saw the trailer but still.... It's all.... not fun.

I did enjoy Rory though. He is awesome and hot and awesome.

[Maggadin]

Is it just me oris anybody else ever so slightly squicked by the fact that the Doctor will be having it off with Amy and Rory's kid? Just me? Thought so...

Also: I admit I was very skeptical about the River is the Baby theory, so I'm actually vaguely surprised that it turned out to be true. Maybe it's because I didn't watch the opening two-parter.

And, yes, Newton, I agree with you points on the Doctor completely. Moffat is just as bad as RTD on that count, if not worse.

[eve11]

Well I liked it, it was entertaining and a bit of a mess but I liked it anyway if only for the "they don't put up a balloon or anything!" scene And hey, Moffat made 10/Reinette work in GiTF, maybe he can make this work too. As I mentioned somewhere else, I think part of the weirdness of this story is we're still seeing everything being told backwards. I suppose we will see Lorna again in episode 13 maybe? I kinda hope that as soon as they panned away from her, she regenerated. ;D

[Maggadin]

Well, I suppose that's a matter of opinion: I don't think he made Ten/Reinette ''work'' at all. If anything I found it pretty hackneyed and treacly. And also, they somehow managed to turn Mdm. de Pompadeour into a bland slice of vanilla, which quite frankly ought to be impossible. So to me, Moffat doesn't have a terribly good track record when it comes to romance.

[merrythemad]

for what it's worth I can see sides of this and standly firmly in either camp.

** oooh lists I likey them!

LOVE LOVE LOVE when the Doctor says "Good men don't need rules, don't make me show you why I have so many" or something akin, that gave me shivers!

ALSO LOVE LOVE LOVE when Rory calls Amy "Mrs. Williams" Tindog no more, he!

LOVE When Dorium half-pleads "I'm old, I'm fat, I'm blue"

DISLIKED
them playing the ambiguity card on the baby's parentage (even if only for a few moments) at the beginning. Rory is the last of his kind? So umm how's the work? he's not human? (He was just recognised as human in the last two parter) Rory's really a roman (in the rebooted universe? wouldn't this also make him an auton?) grrrrr

I also really didn't like the River reveal. It's bad writing and feels more like fanfic than RTD ever dared (to me anyway). In all of space and time the only place two time travelers meet has to be right beneath her future parents noses?

Also um...poor Rory, did his daughter just insinuate having a threesome with an alien as a birthday gift? How's he EVER going to let that child leave the house?

Also I'm a bit tired of everyone claiming RTD gave the Doctor God-status, I mean it's been hinted at before (classic era), but looking at the RTD era the episodes in which the Doctor gets all Godlike are almost ALL Moffat stories I mean I'm the Doctor, so basically run and I'm the Doctor look me up and I just sent a demi-god to his room and he listened and *snaps fingers* TARDIS opens and...well, really need I go on? So really, Moffat set him up just to kick him and I'm really starting believe he'd kill the entire franchise just to leave his mark on history.

ALSO!!!! Did anyone else notice on the BBC website the Doctor's home planet is now listed as "Unknown" ummm kaaaaaaay WTF?

so basically, yes I liked it, no, I wasn't satisfied and I'm deeply hoping it's because nothing's been resolved yet.**

[eve11]

Maggadin, yes, a matter of opinion then.

[merrythemad]

Also this:
Captain Harcourt was a time agent and I shall begin writing him forthwith! Seriously, though, I do hope he shows up again and this proves to be the case

[johne]

My reaction to this episode was... weird. It may be because I didn't catch the first minute of the broadcast and thought I'd missed something important. Once it was over, I rewatched that minute and found that no, I hadn't.

Anyway, by the time the credits rolled, my first reaction was along the lines of "Worst episode evar! Bring back Rose! The Moff-haters were right! RUINED FOREVER!" And then, a few minutes later, I had no idea why I'd felt so strongly about it. Still don't.

So, onto the spoilery bits:
]

• The first bit felt rather like padding (rather like the first 20 minutes of The End of Time Part II did). Madame Kovarian obligingly told us at the start that the Doctor's victory would be hollow, and accordingly it felt hollow. In The Prisoner, that plotline's quite common: Number 6 performs some daredevil feat of spying, only to find himself right where he started. But Doctor Who doesn't usually work by that rule.
  
• Of the Doctor's Legion of non-Doom, I (along with, it seems, the rest of the Internet) loved the Victorian Silurian and her sword-wielding maid and want them to have their own spinoff. I think the concept ought to sustain a miniseries, at least. Could have done without the Spitfires (I was too busy wondering how the Doctor brought them there) and Averies.
  
• Once the Headless Monks' true nature was revealed, I found myself getting distracted by questions of how they eat and breathe, and other science facts (lalala).
  

On the subject of the big revelations:

• So Melody can acquire Time Lord DNA (or rather, a string of what looks more like RNA tastefully draped over her genome) just by being conceived in the TARDIS? That's enough to make her part-Time Lord? At this point, I was tempted to react like Caiaphas as written by Dorothy L. Sayers ("Do you think there is a host of gods and half-gods walking the earth... as in the disgusting fables of the heathen?")
  
• River's acquiring common Mary Sue traits by the bucketload. Let's see, she's the suddenly-introduced Significant Other of a canon character, she's the suddenly-introduced child of two canon characters, she can fly the TARDIS better than the Doctor, in her initial appearance she's got a better screwdriver than the Doctor, she's part-Time Lord, her origin story involves being kidnapped as a baby, she sacrifices her life to save the Doctor... When I ran her through this Mary Sue test, I was able to get her score up past 50 ("Kill it dead"). And, in a way, it makes sense. The Doctor could also be considered a Canon Sue, so Kovarian sets a Sue to catch a Sue.
  
• I do like the idea that she knows the Doctor's name because she saw it written on his crib. I suspect we'll still get the Scene Where The Doctor Confides It To Her, though.
  
• Though if the crib is his, why does he have it on the TARDIS? Was Susan in it when he stole the TARDIS? (Actually, fic with One trying to look after a screaming baby Susan could be hilarious).
  
• I'm left with the distinct impression that the Doctor won't be able to return baby Melody to her parents, because the events of her childhood are fixed; she's to become a starving regenerating waif in 1969 America (or is she?).
  

Overall, my reaction was a bit... meh. Certainly not as dreadful as I first thought, and I can easily name worse episodes, but it didn't grab me particularly.[

[johne]

Jun 5, 2011 18:36:17 GMT merrythemad said:

[Rory is the last of his kind? So umm how's the work? he's not human? (He was just recognised as human in the last two parter) Rory's really a roman (in the rebooted universe? wouldn't this also make him an auton?) grrrrr

]He's the last Roman.[

Also um...poor Rory, did his daughter just insinuate having a threesome with an alien as a birthday gift? How's he EVER going to let that child leave the house?

]That's if he ever gets the chance to see her again.[

Also I'm a bit tired of everyone claiming RTD gave the Doctor God-status, I mean it's been hinted at before (classic era), but looking at the RTD era the episodes in which the Doctor gets all Godlike are almost ALL Moffat stories

]From "New Earth": "I am The Doctor. If you don't like it, if you want to take it to a higher authority, there isn't one. It stops with me."

It reminded me at the time of Dogbert:
Caller: Can I speak to your supervisor?
Dogbert: There's some theological debate on that point.

And it certainly wasn't Moffat who gave us the delightfully-named Tinkerbell Jesus Doctor, or Paul McGann in his white robes or crown of thorns.[

So really, Moffat set him up just to kick him and I'm really starting believe he'd kill the entire franchise just to leave his mark on history.**

]It seems quite reasonable to me; it's an attempt to deal with the idea that entities ought to know of the Doctor, particularly if they're organisations fighting with or against him, and take that into account. But since the logical reaction would be for them to run away screaming (as in the joke where invading aliens see a police box and promptly cancel their invasion plans), that means there wouldn't be any story. So I think steps are being taken to counteract the in-universe idea of an invincible Doctor.

As with so much else, it can be argued that it's been done before. It's quite similar to the opening of Alien Bodies, the same sequence where the Doctor jumps out of a high window and relies on the TARDIS being in the right place to catch him.

I don't believe Moffat's trying to kill the franchise, and if he were I don't think he would do it like this.[

[eve11]

"So Melody can acquire Time Lord DNA (or rather, a string of what looks more like RNA tastefully draped over her genome) just by being conceived in the TARDIS? That's enough to make her part-Time Lord?"

Well to be fair, they did say that no, that wasn't enough, but it was a good start and then the Kovarian Space Nazis were doing their best to hurry it along.

[clocketpatch]

Is anyone else confused about just what, exactly, was up with the Headless Monks? It seemed like they were just in the episode to kill the fat side of the adorable couple and provide a dramatic entrance for the Doctor.

After all of the stuff about following their heart versus their head I was hoping for some kind of symbolic comparison between them and the Doctor. Or, at the least, for one of them to start attacking the thin one and then turned and shuffled away to much sniffling and a dramatic soaring soundtrack.

Though... I suppose we haven't seen the last of them given that the last eppy of the series is called "Demons Run"