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Post by jjpor on May 15, 2009 22:08:25 GMT
Er...what Clocket said!
I do like Season 18, even if it is at times a bit over-serious (and tends to lay on the technobabble a bit thickly at times - although at least it's all halfway-real technobabble as opposed to totally made up guff like you get in *cough*Trek*cough*). And Logopolis is like Exhibit C (after The Five Doctors and Survival) in the case for Ainley!Master having his own kind of awesomeness, even if the scripts didn't always allow him to show it: "Peoples of the universe, please attend carefully..."
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Post by merrythemad on May 16, 2009 17:29:58 GMT
JJ said :"totally made up guff like you get in *cough*Trek*cough*"
Watch it, mate! Trek seriously lacked the racism rampant in who...
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Post by jjpor on May 16, 2009 20:14:29 GMT
JJ said :"totally made up guff like you get in *cough*Trek*cough*" Watch it, mate! Trek seriously lacked the racism rampant in who... It did indeed; the original series was very socially progressive indeed compared to most contemporary television. First interracial television kiss, I believe, among other things. Okay, so there was some dodginess at times, but I have nothing but love for the TOS and Kirk and Spock and Bones and all the rest. I was sort of thinking of Geordi in TNG and his made-up sub-atomic particles of the week (usually involved reconfiguring the deflector array or somesuch, I seem to remember...). I still haven't shifted myself to seeing the new movie yet, but hopefully will do soon, because I've heard nothing but good things about it (even the big spoilery plotpoint I've heard seems kind of clever and cool to me). The only thing that concerns me is that the big billboard poster for it I see every day on my way to work features Kirk, Spock and Uhura, but where's Bones? Everybody knows that classic Trek is *about* Kirk/Spock/Bones...isn't it?? Er, that was totally off-topic, so I'll shut up now - apologies for hijacking your introductory thread! ;D
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Post by magnusgreel on May 18, 2009 8:47:13 GMT
First season original Star Trek was a sort of miracle of serious, adult, credible science-fiction presented to a mass audience. Next Generation lived up to that for awhile, but halfway through started to drop the real science and just make stuff up.
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Post by timeywimeyding on May 18, 2009 21:26:38 GMT
JJ said :"totally made up guff like you get in *cough*Trek*cough*" Watch it, mate! Trek seriously lacked the racism rampant in who... Racism? In Doctor who? No way. Really?
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Post by jjpor on May 18, 2009 21:38:28 GMT
LOL, have you seen Talons of Weng-Chiang? Don't get me wrong, it's awesome, but...
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Post by clocketpatch on May 18, 2009 21:51:11 GMT
In some of the black and white episodes it's really bad. Actually, some of Three's episodes are a bit uncomfortable as well... The odd thing is, that it seemed to swing back and forth from story to story. I mean, I'm no expert on this stuff, but some of the episodes would be kind of progressive (Like Two's Enemy of the World has some great stuff, and Three's The Mutants is basically a commentary on why racism is BAD) but then, the next week, they'd be back to the stereotypes and uncomfortableness.
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Post by jjpor on May 18, 2009 21:57:05 GMT
I think that's the thing; that sort of stuff was so ingrained in everyday culture in those days (I mean look at some of the 70s sitcoms; it's ten times worse!) that even when they were _trying_, like Doctor Who was, to be progressive and humanistic, they still ended up failing quite a lot. And that's not to condone it or anything, or to say it was okay, but unfortunately it's a fact about British popular culture in that period. I'm sure some of the stuff that horrifies people today seemed just rib-tickling at the time.
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Post by magnusgreel on May 19, 2009 13:21:08 GMT
In "The Mutants", it always seems as if their conscious desire to skewer racism was running up against their unconscious lingering racism. The black actor (Rick James?) hired to play... Stubbs was it?... he couldn't act. It always seems patronizing. Let's make a big statement against racism, let's include a black man amongst the imperialists, now who can we get to play him? Well let's settle for Rick James, we probably won't find one who can act all that well....
It might just have been a problem with the person doing the casting, but she/he could have been over-ridden. Rick James was also on the second-to-last Blake's Seven, playing an alien who looked very much like an African tribal chief. It's a little hard to know quite what to make of that one.
Apart from India and Pakistan, I think Great Britain had an intact worldwide empire until 1960. Through the 60s, the remaining colonies became independent. This was all a fairly fresh issue for the makers of DW in the 60s and early 70s. All that was being questioned very seriously, but it takes years to question an issue like that on every level.
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Post by primsong on Jun 11, 2009 17:15:23 GMT
Timeywimey - why are you now weeny? It does make me laugh...
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Post by timeywimeyding on Jun 11, 2009 19:45:03 GMT
Timeywimey - why are you now weeny? It does make me laugh... I temporarily changed my display name to 'I'm my weeny digit'. Apparently, it's an anagram of timeywimeyding. But I changed it back because it could have become comfusing. Also, it alluded to a certain amount of innuendo.
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Post by Aldebaran on Jun 13, 2009 6:55:13 GMT
Hello newcomer!!! Okay: me in a nutshell. My name is Aldebaran, after the star, my friends call me "Aldy", as may you. I was a four fan, and was rumored to be related to Tom Baker for awhile. I have an infinitesimal sense of humor and a lager-than-life personality. I lost my die-hard whovianisim in December of 2008, and left the site for awhile, but always stayed teathered to it because the people here are so incredibly AWESOME. As a result, I'm never far. I'm usually lurking in the shadows or something. You may not see me much anymore, but feel free to drop me a message or something. I'll reply eventually. Welcome. Enjoy your stay. I sure did.
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Post by timeywimeyding on Jun 13, 2009 14:34:01 GMT
That have anything to do with The Next Doctor?
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Post by jjpor on Jun 13, 2009 23:17:27 GMT
I wouldn't blame him: "They broke my heart(s)"; made me want to break the telly! Hey, Aldy; I knew you hadn't deserted us! Good to see you around - we're all still here, most of us. Hope this isn't just a flying visit...
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Post by Stripes on Jun 14, 2009 0:41:08 GMT
Am I the only one who lived "The Next Doctor?" I tend to like the stuff many people don't.
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Post by clocketpatch on Jun 14, 2009 1:23:06 GMT
Aside from the last ten minutes or so I liked it (the Ten angst kind of wrecked it, as did the chronic continuity fairy leaning in my ear and asking how a giant robot managed to stomp around 1800s London without leaving a trace in the present day). I loved the cybershades though, and their adorable little tilted-head, wounded puppy dog expressions. And I loved the bickering between Ten and not!Doctor. And I loved the moment o' fanwank which has led to so many beautiful icons, and made Eight well and truly canon. And I loved the idea of the plot as well, even if the execution maybe went a bit naft near the end. And 'TARDIS' that was also awesome.
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Post by Aldebaran on Jun 14, 2009 17:44:25 GMT
It wasn't very well written in my opinion... for the reason, as Clocket pointed out, "so... WHEN did a skyscraper cyberman stomp about Victorian London?" I just sorta shut my eyes and assumed he mindswiped everyone before he left. But no, "The Next Doctor" really had nothing to do with it. I just found other things to keep me busy, and I fell off the boat for a bit. But I think I've managed to climb back on. I just need a little group therapy. It's good to BE back, Jjpor. No, I could never abandon you guys.
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Post by jjpor on Jun 14, 2009 20:16:21 GMT
You can take the man out of DbyA, but you can't... yeah, well, you know the rest. Things I liked about the Next Doctor: 1. David Morrissey, who at times seemed to be channelling Six or something. A really good British actor who I have nothing but admiration for. 2. The hot air balloon 3. The amazingly cheap-looking Cybershades; they and the fly-men out of Planet of the Dead would have fitted right in in something with Five in it. 4. Dervla Kirwin's evil smirk - get this woman back as the Rani. 5. The Montage!! It made my Christmas, is all I'll say, and I know how sad that sounds. Things I didn't like: 1. 2000s Cybermen are even more dull than 80s Cybermen. 2. The ending made no sense, but then again, this is NuWho we're talking about. 3. The angst 4. And the angst, of course. 5. Oh, and did I mention the angst? I agree that Ten ought to show some sort of emotional/character response to all of the stuff he's been through, but to be honest that whole "they break my heart" thing just wasn't worthy of the Doctor if you ask me. Just like his pathetic, cringing reaction to Davros's attempt to guilt him in Journey's End. Any other Doctor would have played it right back at the mummified old so-and-so and proven his moral superiority (and coincidentally his greater awesomeness! Which would have been a feat given that Julian Bleach's Davros was no slouch in the awesomeness stakes either); Nine's "Oncoming Storm" speech in Bad Wolf/Parting of the Ways - compare and contrast. And the funny thing is that his current round of angst is entirely down to his own inept handling of the ending of Journey's End, anyway; but that's a discussion for another thread... Having said all of that, whenever I see one of those fanvids like the ones I was watching with Clocket and LL last night, it just impresses upon me how much I'm going to miss Ten when he's gone. I wouldn't have said _that_ this time last year. ;D And now I've just gone and hijacked this thread to rant about my own preoccupations
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lynda
Auton Daisy
Posts: 480
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Post by lynda on Jun 14, 2009 23:39:48 GMT
My special weapon is that I've only watched The Next Doctor once so I can't really remember the plot all that well. It had The Montage and is therefore good.
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Post by merrythemad on Jun 15, 2009 13:57:16 GMT
bah! I will comment more on this when I can see,I am outside and cann barely read what you lot wrote ( i think i was hoping my desire to be back in touch with all of you would override my inability to read flatscreens outdoors, alas no whovian magic occurred, perhaps I have offended the whovian gods) , but I had to say I LOVED David Morrisey in The Next Doctor and he is 11, really, I swear!!!
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