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Post by johne on May 29, 2010 20:42:27 GMT
Spoilers, obviously.
]In the scene in the TARDIS at the end, where the Doctor is urging Amy to remember, was anyone else getting flashbacks to the similar scene in 'Flesh and Stone'?
I wonder if what she has to remember there is not Rory, but the TARDIS? It seems likely on tonight's showing that something dreadful happens to the TARDIS in the finale, and perhaps Amy's memory is the one chance of saving it. Because he certainly did tell her various things about the TARDIS when she was seven.[
Edit: ]Oh, and a thousand years forward from 2020 gets us to a point where most of humanity has left the Earth, doesn't it? In The Beast Below Starship UK left in the 2800s and has been travelling for several centuries.[
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Post by librarylover on May 30, 2010 19:53:22 GMT
I just finished watching it.
** Rooorrrryyyyy! I am sad. Of course, it begs the question if he is really gone. I think the fact that the ring survived is significant. If he never existed, then the ring should never have been purchased and given to Amy, right? Is there a chance for him, as long as the Doctor remembers him? I hope so.
I'm looking forward to seeing Van Gogh next week! **
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greatbriton
UNIT Red Shirt
I Go Ding When There is Stuff
Posts: 146
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Post by greatbriton on May 31, 2010 2:09:40 GMT
** [white] I didn't much care for these episodes. And I'm not impressed with their killing Rory two stories in a row. It's lazy if anything.
To Johne's theory. Interesting. I don't know how the TARDIS is connected but I'm certain we'll be seeing that talk of Amy remembering surface again come the finale and it playing a large role. The scene in "Cold Blood" was similar and I didn't quite catch it at the time.
And even if the humans had been out in space for several centuries they could still be there around 2110 for the Silurians. If they surface and if the humans coexist with them it could change the history of the human race to the point that maybe the Star Whale story never... happened? Like the Doctor said if they made a deal with the Silurians in "Cold Blood" it would change history and make a new future. Weird. Time travel can get complicated.
[/white]**
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Post by Stripes on May 31, 2010 13:31:45 GMT
I just couldn't bring myself to downloading this episode. I have gotten into other tv shows and would rather use my ratio to download the other shows than this SEASON of Doctor Who.
Last week was bad and i doubted this week would be any better. after reading what you guys said, now I am just pissed with Moffat. After next week, I don't think I will be downloading any more WHO, unless you lot go "OMG WTF LOL THAT WAS GREAT!" Like we all did with 10/Donna episodes. That was a good season for DbyA.
It has become a choir to force myself to watch these season, in which I just play cards and have it as background.
Next week I am hyped for, it's written by one of my favourite comedy writers AND it has van Goeh who is Dutch, I'm Dutch. This episodes has high expectations, Matt and who ever plays Ami better not ruin it.
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Post by merrythemad on May 31, 2010 15:12:02 GMT
NEWTON!!!! Please don't be a mod on a DOCTOR WHO board saying how BAD you think the show is; it LOOKS BAD BAD BAD for us as a site. That being said while these were perhaps not the best episodes this season they are both MILES better than say "Fear Her" or "The Wire". Now whitedness follows!** I agree, LL, Rory probably isn't dead, I don't understand how the Doctor can REACH into the crack and be k, but is unable to touch the light long enough to drag Rory's body into the TARDIS, so I think it MUST be a plot point, especially as I am convinced the Doctor has Rory's watch, or rather will. Did anyone notice if the ring was there AFTER the crash, I have watched it twice and they show it but not AFTER Amy loses focus...the fact that both Amy and Rory were there at the beginning gave me hope but then I remember how many times he has said "time can be rewritten" and my hope faded a bit. I am SO SO SO excited for next week, I have been waiting for the Van Gogh episode for AGES! I hope we find out a bit more about the crack, we are running out of episodes! I have more to say but can't remember I'll either edit or reply depending on you lot!**
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Post by Stripes on May 31, 2010 19:14:46 GMT
I am not saying the show is bad. I am saying that this season I feel like I have to force myself to watch it. If I was saying the show was bad, i would classic who which is not bad at all.
Now that would look bad if I was smashing classic who while being an mod on here.
I still have classic who, audios, books and fan made stuff, more than enough to fulfill my doctor who needs. I'm actually really into the Seven audios right now.
" I have gotten into other tv shows and would rather use my ratio to download the other shows then Doctor Who."
I will admit, I should have said THIS SEASON of DW. I guess I kind of figured that you all understood.
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Post by jjpor on May 31, 2010 20:46:40 GMT
Well, Newton, at the end of the day it all comes down to personal preference. I felt the way you feel about S5 about some of the Tennant stories, so I can understand what you're saying. I've been enjoying this season so far, though; even when it's not as good, I think it's been better than some of the ones I really didn't like from previous seasons. I wasn't too enthused by this week's one. Not for the obvious reason, though: * I think maybe I've just got it in for Chris Chibnall, really, but this story while it certainly had some interesting ideas and was trying to do something that would have been really great if they'd pulled it off...it just didn't quite get there. There were some things in here that were very reminiscent of some of the Torchwood stories Chibnall was responsible for, and similarly annoyed me quite a lot. Plus there was some pure, unreconstructed S2-era Ten/RTDisms going on, a bit like in the Venice episode. I mean, I thought we'd got rid of that sort of stuff. Ah well...
But yeah, this was clearly meant to be an epic tragedy, with the Doctor doing his best to make peace, unaware that it was all doomed almost from the outset, and with the viewer waiting and dreading it all inevitably falling apart. Yet, it seemed a bit flat really. I think the way they handled the character Ambrose and her actions was a bit off. Instead of making it seem like the sort of thing an ordinary person might easily do in that sort of stressful, frightening situation, they made her a bit OTT I think. I could be wrong.
Johne - the Doctor's masterplan becomes apparent! ;D When the Silurians wake up, they'll have the planet to themselves - nice one, Eleven!
I'll be very surprised if Rory turns out to be permanently dead. I think the ring is significant - notice how they showed it in the recap at the start of this ep even though it didn't really feature in the story at all? And yes, it was like the "remember" scene in Flesh and Stone (which I'm still certain we're going to see again from the other side at some point). My big question, though, is just why did we see future Amy and Rory, and latterly just future Amy, are we going to be seeing that again from the other side as well?
I'm very, very confused on the whole timey fixed points versus wonderful opportunities thing, now. I mean, what the Doctor proposed to do would have rewritten great swathes of Earth history, but was okay, whereas rescuing half a dozen people from dying on Mars was going to destroy the universe or something? I might be being a bit thick about it, but I really don't understand the "rules" as laid out in NuWho...
And same on the Doctor sticking his arm in the crack...I mean, I could buy that he was immune because he's a Time Lord, but then how would the Weeping Angels' plan for him to close the crack by sacrificing himself have worked?
And exploding TARDIS! Yikes!
Next week - Bill Nighy!!! ;D Can't wait! Oh yeah, and it's got Vincent van Gogh in it too...*
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Post by Stripes on May 31, 2010 21:52:23 GMT
Thank you for understanding JJ. I do not shun you for liking this season. There are many people who do. I am glad you like it. Keep on chatting, keep on squeeing, keep on watching WHO, old and/or new!
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Post by merrythemad on May 31, 2010 22:23:50 GMT
I'm sorry! I see what you are saying, it probably doesn't help I tend to try and read DbA before I've finished my first coffee of the day, it's just I miss rushing to the defense of JE Newton, this indifferent unimpressed Newton is saddening whitedness follows! Does it bother you guys that that Scientist Sil told the Doctor "I still their children and slow their aging process so I can study them!" and the Doctor replies "I rather love you". I mean this seems seriously out of character, and the WHOLE time the Doctor acts as if the Sil are wholly innocent and COMPLETELY blameless. So the bad humans who were NOT attacking responded violently to THEIR FAMILIES being poisoned and kidnapped and this makes us savages?? It irritated me. And makes me worry whether for Eleven or the show...I haven't figured out yet.**
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Post by jjpor on Jun 1, 2010 20:24:28 GMT
Thanks for not shunning me Newton - I won't shun you either! ;D Awww...isn't that nice?? Merry's right - we need some impassioned debate going on here - fight! fight! fight! fight! Er...no, not really, before anyone really does start fighting... ;D
*Yeah, Merry; that whole thing did kind of confuse me. I mean, the Silurian scientist cheerfully admitted to kidnapping and experimenting on children, but just because he didn't kill them (I mean, he dissected people alive and conscious, but he didn't kill them!), we were supposed to think he was a good guy and feel sorry for him when he died in the attempted coup... Nah...
And yeah, while I think the mother's actions did come across as a bit crazy and over the top (I mean yeah, her family were in danger, but they could have characterised her with a bit more subtlety, and then when she did turn to violence it would have been all the more shocking, imho), but the Silurian military types had more or less decided to start a war with the humans, by any means necessary, yet the Doctor didn't really hold them to blame as well. I mean, I'm glad he was blaming someone other than himself, because Ten would have been all wibbling and beating himself up over it all, but he could have been a bit more even-handed. Yeah.
Oh, and johne - it comes to my attention that if The Beast Below is to be believed then when the Silurians wake up in 1000 years time, they will indeed have the planet to themselves, but they will also be cooked by solar flares shortly afterwards... So, as I said, nice one Eleven! ;D [Adam West voice]Doctor, you diabolical fiend...[/Adam West voice] *
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Post by Starflower on Jun 2, 2010 23:57:59 GMT
*I am really really angry at Moffat in this episode. >=( Rory was amazing, FANASTIC, and they just erased him from existance. Amy doesn't even remember him. He was the best male companion since Ian (not including UNIT family) and suddenly he is gone. Grrrr. >=(
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Post by jjpor on Jun 3, 2010 20:02:46 GMT
SPOILERS - EVEN MORE SPOILERY THAN USUAL SO BE CAREFUL EVEN HIGHLIGHTING THIS: * If one of the spoiler pics I've seen is to be believed (it was from the back, so some room for error perhaps), then Rory fans may have a glimmer of hope yet... *
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Post by merrythemad on Jun 4, 2010 0:55:10 GMT
**pssst check IMBD**
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Post by johne on Jun 4, 2010 12:27:37 GMT
] This is, of course, the same IMDB that assured us Norman Lovett was going to play Davros in 'The Parting of the Ways'. Just sayin'.[
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Post by jjpor on Jun 4, 2010 19:45:48 GMT
*And what a missed opportunity that was...*
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Post by clocketpatch on Jun 7, 2010 3:22:19 GMT
BAHHHHHHHHH!!! WAS NOT EXPECTING THAT!!! WAS LOVING RORY!! BAHHHH!!!!
I'm just going to go cry now.
Okay, now that that's out of the way (BAHHHHH!!!!) I was really rather charmed by these episodes and on the edge of my seat through most of them (and giggling hysterically at the fanwank and the blatant As You Know Bob dialogue through the rest). They were very, very VERY old skool. It even had the episode start up with the guest guest establishing the situation and then really taking the time (what time there is in 90 minutes) to explore their relationships. Wonderful!
I was amused beyond belief once I realized that the 'scary' masks on the Silurians were just there to save money on the prosthetics. That's Who budget splicing at it's best.
Other bits (more relevant to the episodes) that I loved: celery! The fan-wanky references! The Doctor admitting that he's probably not qualified to negotiate on behalf of the human race! "We're in the centre of the Earth and there are lizard men", Eliot! HE QUOTED SHERLOCK!!! And that his dad was reading him The Gruffalo (probably because the Beeb has the rights to it - I still remember last year's Christmas adverts LOL) but I bought that book for my god-son and his mother and father (well, father mostly) are Whovians and will be killing themselves laughing when this airs in Canada next week. Thank you BBC!
Bits I wasn't so fond of:
Why were ALL of the bad guys women? I mean, they did counter-balance it a bit with that East Indian woman (please forgive me for not being able to remember her name) and Amy - both of whom exuded awesome for the duration of both episodes. BUT all of the Silurian warrior women and then Elliot's mother, and then the Doctor was all telling her that she was the worst of humanity over and over when it was HER FAMILY at stake and yes, I guess it was family at stake for the Silurians as well, but Elliot's mother was a heck of a lot more decent about it even if she did end up zapping Elena (that was her name right?) and I'm a bit irked by the implications that men know how to act and women just all go to pieces or whatever that was...
*ends feminist rant*
Also, the Doctor getting all buddy with Sil the scientist and even Mo getting all buddy after that lizard man had been performing vivisections, apparently without anaesthetic. There was a WTF moment.
But for the most part I'll let it slide, because I really did like this episode. I liked it's pacing (that seems to be happening a lot the season, the countdown, actually... I can't think of any episode except, maybe, Beast Below that hasn't had a countdown or a time limit to solve the problem in... why do I get the feeling that this is relevant??)
and then there was the ending.
I'm confused at how Eleven stuck his hand into the crack but couldn't pull out Rory. I'm going to say that he weakened himself enough with his shrapnel diving that he couldn't touch the light again without ramifications. It didn't seem to be pleasant for him in any case (poor boy didn't have a good time of it this episode in general).
But then... I knew the ring was going to be relevant. I knew that from the moment Rory set it there on the console. I just didn't think...
Now I'm going all wibbly again.
Because I really REALLY liked Rory. I liked him a lot. A LOT. And watching him die twice in a row... well, I don't think that it's lazy writing, but I wasn't expecting it and... gah, just thinking about it is tearing my heart out again.
Rory, I want you back! Amy had better remember you!
And then the TARDIS piece. *shudders*
I don't know what is going to happen in the finale. Honestly, no idea. But I don't think Eleven is going to have a good time of it, or our girl the TARDIS, and I wonder if the last story, Amy's Choice, may come into play again... they certainly repeated the title enough times...
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Post by jjpor on Jun 8, 2010 21:31:36 GMT
*Well, I'm glad you liked it, Clocket! ;D As I say, there was so much going on in this story that could have been really great, but for me it didn't quite pull it off. But yeah, so many Three references! ;D
And the Silurian masks fulfil exactly the same role as Sontaran helmets - save on expensive makeup and provide the opportunity for the DUN-DUN-DUN reveal... ;D
Oh, and I'll be very much surprised if we've seen the last of Rory...*
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