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Post by Stripes on May 2, 2010 13:03:24 GMT
I have no idea what this ep was called. I haven't seen last weeks and I only caught the last ten minutes of yesterday on tv. That was enough to know that i really don't care/need to watch the two parter.
Next week looks meh too... only because i really don't care for the 'bad guys'.
Ingore me and chat away.
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Post by librarylover on May 2, 2010 14:21:24 GMT
Newton, Newton . . . you really need to watch the whole thing before you judge it! And yes, we know how to start a thread; we just hadn't gotten around to doing it yet.
** I thought this was a really good two-parter. It was a little squidgy at the end when Amy jumped him, but otherwise it opened up some very intriguing avenues of speculation. Is the man River killed the Doctor? Did she really kill him, or was it something they staged for some purpose? Is the crack gone, or will it appear again? What is the explosion that is causing it? Inquiring minds want to know! Bring on the Vampires in Venice! **
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Post by Starflower on May 2, 2010 23:17:51 GMT
I really like Eleven so far. ^_^ I am sticking with the theory that River kills the Doctor some time. I was kind of suspitious of it in the first episode and with this one I'm pretty sure it's correct. Over all this was a very good episode.... And Amy. 0_o She was a bit... um... shall I say 'direct'? Good Doctor. Tell her no. And poor Rory. I really like him and he probobly wouldn't be to happy if he knew that Amy pretty much tried to seduce the Doctor.... on the night before their wedding. =/
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Post by Maggadin on May 2, 2010 23:31:23 GMT
So... Is River gone for good? Or are they sending out wedding invitations soon?  |
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Post by librarylover on May 3, 2010 0:33:27 GMT
So... Is River gone for good? Or are they sending out wedding invitations soon? ** I think River will be back soon, but I really don't think they are married. When kissing him came up and she said "Maybe when you're older" I laughed pretty hard. ** |
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Post by Maggadin on May 3, 2010 0:39:35 GMT
So... Is River gone for good? Or are they sending out wedding invitations soon? ** I think River will be back soon, but I really don't think they are married. When kissing him came up and she said "Maybe when you're older" I laughed pretty hard. ** |
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Post by Abbyromana on May 3, 2010 18:00:15 GMT
I really liked this episode. It had great key moments. * I appreciate that we're starting to learn more about River Song, and as Moff said, she's more than most of think. Whether or not she has some sort of romantic relationship is yet to be seen, but she definitely is knowledgeable of who the Doctor. Compared to after watching the Library story, I'm liking River now. If she's a criminal or someone who was forced to take criminal actions, I'm curious to know why and how she gets so involved with the Doctor. * As for her killing a very good man (someone she respects), I'm wondering why no one has considered someone other than the Doctor. What if she kills Jack or at least killing him so he has to become the Face of Boe? Or maybe she kills a changed Master... perhaps leading him to be evil again? As possible as her killing the Doctor, I'd say.  * My only iffy moments are the suggestion of changing time (Time Lord Victorious, anyone!) and Amy kissing him. The latter I can forgive since Amy is probably reacting in extreme ways since the events of the two-parter put her closest to death that she's been since becoming a companion. I say it's less about her being in love with him and more she just wants to do something crazy to prove she's still alive. Whether good or bad, I'm leaving that open to fanfic.  * As for the changing time.... I'm a bit nervous. I've already seen D/R shippers pushing the theory that the Doctor should/will rewrite time to bring Rose back. Bad idea! Not because I dislike Rose or them being a team, but I can't see rewriting the Doctor's past as a good idea. Just look at WoM and Father's Day for reasons why not. Also, despite the fact that the Doctor is still the Doctor (no matter which incarnation), I can't see Eleven seeing it a good idea changing events of his Tenth self, particularly when that might cause no regeneration into Eleven and/or not meeting Amy. As much as Ten disliked regenerating, I think Eleven might be more angry not to exist or causing more trouble for any of his companions.Despite all of this, I'm excited to see what happens next, particularly considering that new questions have been posed and so many possibilities have been opened up. |
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pitry
UNIT Red Shirt
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Post by pitry on May 3, 2010 18:48:22 GMT
* As for the changing time.... I'm a bit nervous. I've already seen D/R shippers pushing the theory that the Doctor should/will rewrite time to bring Rose back. Bad idea! Not because I dislike Rose or them being a team, but I can't see rewriting the Doctor's past as a good idea. Just look at WoM and Father's Day for reasons why not. Also, despite the fact that the Doctor is still the Doctor (no matter which incarnation), I can't see Eleven seeing it a good idea changing events of his Tenth self, particularly when that might cause no regeneration into Eleven and/or not meeting Amy. As much as Ten disliked regenerating, I think Eleven might be more angry not to exist or causing more trouble for any of his companions.
Also, a small nitpick... NOOOOO! We saw the angels moving!!!!! I loved the parts of Blink that felt that the only reason Sally didn't die at some scenes was because the audience was looking at the angels! |
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Post by Abbyromana on May 3, 2010 19:23:13 GMT
Also, a small nitpick... NOOOOO! We saw the angels moving!!!!! I loved the parts of Blink that felt that the only reason Sally didn't die at some scenes was because the audience was looking at the angels!Interesting point, pitry. I wondered that too, but I suppose like then... they feared they might be seen... natural reaction as the Doctor put it. Though... that would be something fun to explore. hmmm... do I smell fanfic plot bunny? I haven't seen any fanfic from Angels' POV... and now that we know a bit more about them, it would be fun to explore them a bit more. |
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Post by johne on May 3, 2010 19:57:07 GMT
Also, a small nitpick... NOOOOO! We saw the angels moving!!!!! I loved the parts of Blink that felt that the only reason Sally didn't die at some scenes was because the audience was looking at the angels!My handwave for that is that ] television isn't continuous. It's a succession of frames with tiny gaps between each one. So they move a little in the vertical blanking interval and then turn back to stone at the start of the next frame.[ |
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Post by Abbyromana on May 3, 2010 20:04:36 GMT
My handwave for that is that ] television isn't continuous. It's a succession of frames with tiny gaps between each one. So they move a little in the vertical blanking interval and then turn back to stone at the start of the next frame.[ Oh, johne! You and your thoughtful explanations. |
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Post by Maggadin on May 3, 2010 20:13:57 GMT
I just wish they'd get it over and done with. I get bored watching the other characters do almost nothing except try to figure out the Doctor and River's relationship. Unless of course they're planning to bring her back for years and years to come.
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Post by clocketpatch on May 3, 2010 21:33:04 GMT
That was everything awesome and then a bit more on top. I <3 Eleven and the Moff is showing his skills.
I was a bit miffed that the Angels were shown moving. That was massive fail, but everything else was good. Eleven swatting back Amy at the end made me lol (though, i wanted Eleven to make a comment on Amy's creepy Doctor doll collection). River has been redeemed for me - I don't think she killed the Doctor; that's too obvious; but we'll see... something is telling me that it might be Rory. Anyway, this new, non-trustworthy River strikes me as a lot more interesting.
I'm also a bit flaily after guessing the Doctor's shoot the gravity blob plot at the end of the last episode. Wheee! It started things on a good note.
the counting with Amy was just plain creepy. I love it Some random person knocked on our door in the middle of that sequence and I jumped a mile.
The Bishop is on the short list of favourite one-off characters ever. I want to read Bishop fic like RIGHT NOW.
What is that thing Eleven said to Amy about remembering what he said to her when she was Seven years old? And she didn't remember?
And the duck pond WAS significant.
And the Moff has successfully answered my main problem with the Next Doctor, an episode I wanted to love but couldn't because, well, O.o Giant CyberKing stomping around Victorian London and no one remembers?
To answer AR's fear, I don't think Eleven will intentionally try to rewrite his own timelines, but I think things might be rewritten whether he wants them to be or not, and maybe he's okay with that, the Doctor's done some stuff by this point, I'm sure he'd be happy if it cold all just go away... also, I think he was talking about the future, when it's implied that River will kill him, or the universe will explode and make cracks throughout time.
Favourite part though? Okay, favourite two parts:
A forest in a bottle on a spaceship in a maze. That was classic Moff. That was Classic Who. That was BRILLIANT.
And the Doctor getting down close to Amy's face and telling her that if he always told her the truth she wouldn't have to trust him. There was Seven and Ace in that scene in spades. And I'm a big fan of Amy realizing that Doctor has been lying through his teeth to her since she got on board. Their relationship has delicious layers and I love it. Eeee!
I can't wait for the next episode, though, I've got to wait awhie for that, possibly. If I can get it in the hostel in Venice my room mate said she'd watch with me and take photos of me watching Vampires of Venice in Venice, even though she doesn't like the show, because she agrees that it would be lulzy and awesome.
;D ;D ;D
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Post by Maggadin on May 3, 2010 21:42:29 GMT
I hope this doesn't mean that the timelines of the classic Doctors will be rewritten. That's just too upsetting to contemplate.  River has been redeemed for me
E tu, Clocket!
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Post by jjpor on May 3, 2010 21:42:58 GMT
*Well, according to Moffat the business about River killing a man will be resolved by the end of this season. Now, whether or not that means they're going to bring her back again and again, I don't know.
I honestly didn't mind River as much this time round, anyway. There's a genuine mystery to her now and a strong suggestion that whatever her relationship to the Doctor, it's nothing so straightforward as a marriage or a romantic entanglement (not that either of those are necessarily straightforward!). I'm also thinking that the strong suggestion that the "good man" she killed was the Doctor is a red herring; it's going to turn out to be more surprising than that, I think.
Of course, my theory last week about the hallucinogenic lipstick and the forest of the Mind turned out to be 100% wrong, just like that time I said Paterson Joseph was a dead cert to be Eleven, so don't believe anything I tell you! ;D
But yes, I didn't get the feeling that the Moff ships Eleven/River or indeed Eleven/Amy the way RTD shipped Doctor/Rose. I mean, I think he clearly loves River and thinks she's like the bestest character EVAR (because he invented her!), but there's none of that neediness or clinginess or obnoxious jealousy or anything that we came to associate perhaps with Doctor/Rose. In fact, Eleven doesn't seem interested in River in that way at all...really...and their relationship (from her point of view) seems more jokey and one of trust and mutual points-scoring rather than annoying "I wuv you" stuff.
As for Amy's move on the Doctor at the end...I suppose my only real objection to it is ought we to be having such a frank depiction of, well, attempted sex, in a show going out late afternoon that a lot of young children will be watching? Or am I stuck in a puritanical 1950s timewarp? ;D As a character scene, though...very interesting and illuminating of both of them. For Amy, I think it's another indication of what a troubled young woman she is. I mean, I think her actions went beyond fancying the Doctor and wanting a last fling before her wedding - it was perfectly in line with some of her actions in The Eleventh Hour and after that suggest that as likeable as she is, Amy has some problems. And as for the Doctor...I loved his reaction, from initial cluelessness to later desperate, horrified escape attempts - "I'm 907!" And he's dead right as well, and shows a much more mature attitude to relationships with his companions than Ten displayed at times. Plus, I think he knows it would be wrong in that Amy is much more vulnerable than she at times seems (lovely acting from Karen Gillan in the forest - conveying real fear for her life without resorting to screaming or general uselessness as some past companions have (probably unfairly, actually!) been accused of). And is that the Moff's final word on the possibility of Doctor/companion romances? God, I hope so! ;D
I mean, I've gone on enough, but this ep was great. I really liked it, just as I really liked last week's, and I was glad the story's second half matched the quality of the first, really. So many cool moments from the upside-down gravity, to the Angels illuminated by the muzzle-flashes of the guns, to the soldiers ceasing ever to have existed, to Octavian's death, to just about every time Matt Smith opened his mouth... Eleven continues to just exude awesomeness, and even more amazingly this story represents Matt Smith's first attempt at playing the part (the first to be filmed!). Loved the cocky way he told the Angels they'd failed to appreciate the "gravity" of the situation... ;D
And hints of timey-wimeyness to come! It's been all around the internets by now, but I'm very pleased to say that I spotted it myself first time. This was a multi-Doctor story, even if it wasn't immediately obvious. You know the bit I mean, of course?
Either that or the new Who regime really do have quite shocking continuity control when the film these things... ;D*
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Post by jjpor on May 3, 2010 21:50:47 GMT
The Bishop is on the short list of favourite one-off characters ever. I want to read Bishop fic like RIGHT NOW. * I want to write read fic about the Bishop and Captain Jack teaming up to fight Magnus "The Butcher of Brisbane" Greel and his evil Icelandic Alliance forces in World War Six! All taking place in the 51st Century, right?
Yeah, if we're keeping a sense of perspective, the Angels were far less unique and generally awesome as they were in Blink, but they were in a good story and they remained genuinely creepy, so I can let them off with that.
Maggadin, I share your fear regarding messing about with the classic series continuity. Moffat is on record as saying that continuity is overrated, in the sense that they were just making it up as they went along before JNT and his canon-police came along, but I hope he's just talking about stuff like being able to handwave away the thirteen-Doctor-limit and not worry about contradicting something in one oldschool story, because it's already been contradicted by another oldschool story in all likelihood. If he started messing with actual onscreen stories and saying they never happened and stuff, I would want to make him very unhappy...  * |
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Post by Maggadin on May 3, 2010 21:55:50 GMT
The Bishop is on the short list of favourite one-off characters ever. I want to read Bishop fic like RIGHT NOW. write read fic about the Bishop and Captain Jack teaming up to fight Magnus "The Butcher of Brisbane" Greel and his evil Icelandic Alliance forces in World War Six! All taking place in the 51st Century, right?
Also, if the Doctor wants to avoid romantic entaglement with Amy because he's 907 then he'd better avoid the same with River. I mean, when you're that old, there's barely a difference in their age, is there? |
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Post by jjpor on May 3, 2010 22:01:02 GMT
I want to write read fic about the Bishop and Captain Jack teaming up to fight Magnus "The Butcher of Brisbane" Greel and his evil Icelandic Alliance forces in World War Six! All taking place in the 51st Century, right?
Also, if the Doctor wants to avoid romantic entaglement with Amy because he's 907 then he'd better avoid the same with River. I mean, when you're that old, there's barely a difference in their age, is there?* Oh my God, it's...The Bishop!! ;D That'd be even more awesome!
And yes, I'd like to think that the Doctor operates a consistent and fair policy when it comes to companion fraternisation, certainly. Well, human companions, anyway...
And yes, one of his objections to Amy was "you're human, and I'm 907!". Make of that what you will...* |
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Post by Maggadin on May 3, 2010 22:08:52 GMT
Don't you mean.... The BISHOP: www.youtube.com/watch?v=U0ZqVgJoCbc&feature=related
Also, if the Doctor wants to avoid romantic entaglement with Amy because he's 907 then he'd better avoid the same with River. I mean, when you're that old, there's barely a difference in their age, is there? * Oh my God, it's...The Bishop!! ;D That'd be even more awesome!
And yes, I'd like to think that the Doctor operates a consistent and fair policy when it comes to companion fraternisation, certainly. Well, human companions, anyway...
And yes, one of his objections to Amy was "you're human, and I'm 907!". Make of that what you will...* |
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Post by jjpor on May 3, 2010 22:11:00 GMT
Well, I'm still not convinced the Doctor/River thing isn't going to develope romantically. He might not be interested in her that way now, but in my opinion Moffat is just as predictable as RTD when it comes to romance. * I'll just say I would be very disappointed if the whole Doctor/River deal really did turn out to be as straightfoward as fandom was led to believe back in Forest of the Dead. I'd be very disappointed indeed.* |
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