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Post by Stripes on Apr 10, 2010 20:40:41 GMT
I didn't want to put the title of the episode because that would have been boring. I haven't watched it yet so i couldn't make a witty comment. so you get this title.
Everyone, post, white out your text and have a great day.
*edit* I just watched the first two minutes and now I am scared to move on.
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greatbriton
UNIT Red Shirt
I Go Ding When There is Stuff
Posts: 146
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Post by greatbriton on Apr 10, 2010 22:01:47 GMT
** [white] I had fun watching the episode. Though I can't help but be a bit disappointed. There was a lot of things that were in the episode that weren't needed. Like The Smilers. Other than quick little freaky vibes there was no reason for them.
I liked angry!Eleven. I kept thinking he was going to start shouting about stupid apes.
[/white]**
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Post by jjpor on Apr 10, 2010 22:07:08 GMT
*I don't know, on a first watch. There was a lot to like about this episode - it was basically Moffat does The Long Game or something like that, but with a pleasing amount of dark, twisted stuff that will no doubt give kiddies nightmares. Eleven had a bit of a Ten!angsty moment, which I didn't like quite as much, but for some reason because it wasn't actually Ten I wasn't as annoyed by it as I probably should have been. But then again, it was a situation he had every right to be a bit annoyed about...although he probably should have seen the solution Amy came up with.
It actually had a very good point to make about how people sometimes, in stressful situations, talk themselves into doing some pretty horrible things because they convince themselves it's the only choice, but actually if they took a step back and just dropped the we-need-to-make-hard-choices b***s***, a better approach might present itself. Or something like that. I think RTD might have made the same point in CoE, but with more deaths and tears involved... ;D
Still, apart from that bit, which was really a writing choice, Matt Smith continues to be excellent - his Eleven here was a bit let Tennish than last week, just fantastically awkward and professorish and slightly alien - all gangly limbs and impromptu lectures and forgetting things and wandering off. And Amy was very good again - I don't know if I'd have her proving her awesomeness by showing the Doctor up like that at the end, but then I'm not the showrunner - I especially liked the bit where she was "investigating" by herself with total disregard for her own safety. She continues with the amusing facial expressions too.
And another crack sighting - they didn't exactly make us search hard for this one!
Winston Churchill?? And just how did you get this number?!*
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Post by johne on Apr 10, 2010 22:23:45 GMT
] I think I'm slightly allergic to beautiful, innocent star whales. Can the next star whale we see be a nasty, devious creature? Just a thought 
Plus, however sure Amy was about the whale's reaction to being released, the video message gave me the impression that the starship would destroy itself to let the whale out. Which would be a mechanical process that the whale wouldn't have a say in.
Still very impressed with Matt Smith and Karen Gillan. And Sophie Okonedo, who for some reason reminds me of Carole Ann Ford.[ |
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greatbriton
UNIT Red Shirt
I Go Ding When There is Stuff
Posts: 146
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Post by greatbriton on Apr 10, 2010 22:25:00 GMT
** [white]Wow. Guess I'm not the only one who couldn't help but think of Children of Earth. I couldn't help but think of COE and even Gwen's speech about how The Doctor turns away from humanity in shame. Though I think "The Beast Below" made the point a lot better. :/
I agree with you JJ, it was rather lame to have Amy show up The Doctor with something that should have been rather obvious to The Doctor. Especially since he first noticed the crying child and was there when they explained that the beast wouldn't eat the children. But they needed something for her to redeem herself in The Doctor's eyes and they also needed a way to pound it into our heads that The Doctor is just like the Star Whale! Do you understand, that he is Just Like The Star Whale!
sorry. I just felt that little parallel between Doctor and Whale was laid on pretty thick. [/white]**
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Post by johne on Apr 10, 2010 22:35:06 GMT
** [white]I agree with you JJ, it was rather lame to have Amy show up The Doctor with something that should have been rather obvious to The Doctor. Especially since he first noticed the crying child and was there when they explained that the beast wouldn't eat the children. But they needed something for her to redeem herself in The Doctor's eyes and they also needed a way to pound it into our heads that The Doctor is just like the Star Whale! Do you understand, that he is Just Like The Star Whale! sorry. I just felt that little parallel between Doctor and Whale was laid on pretty thick. [/white]** ] Agreed. If Amy had met the Master maybe she wouldn't be quite so sure about her notion that people in similar situations would react in similar ways.
But Moff's intention (and I got this more from the Confidential than the episode) is that Amy understands this Doctor better than the Doctor does, at the moment, because she's had years to think about how he ticks, and he hasn't.
(Hmm, there's a reading here where the Doctor still thinks he's Ten and therefore his mind goes straight to solutions involving killing and angst. And in which he forgives Amy because she was willing to make the same choice he did, and commit genocide against her own kind )[ |
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Post by clocketpatch on Apr 10, 2010 23:03:42 GMT
Interesting discussion here. Unfortunately, I can't contribute because the Doctor = Star Whale thing just got me laughing so hard... and I can't stop...
Okay, okay, one non-Star Whale related thing... um... I loved how the Doctor was lying to Amy at the beginning, and then how alien he was with the glass of water (and the continued twirling!)
And the theme song may just be growing on me.
There was other stuff. But mostly, the Doctor is a giant space whale. LMAO
**
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Post by jjpor on Apr 10, 2010 23:12:23 GMT
** [white]I agree with you JJ, it was rather lame to have Amy show up The Doctor with something that should have been rather obvious to The Doctor. Especially since he first noticed the crying child and was there when they explained that the beast wouldn't eat the children. But they needed something for her to redeem herself in The Doctor's eyes and they also needed a way to pound it into our heads that The Doctor is just like the Star Whale! Do you understand, that he is Just Like The Star Whale! sorry. I just felt that little parallel between Doctor and Whale was laid on pretty thick. [/white]** ] Agreed. If Amy had met the Master maybe she wouldn't be quite so sure about her notion that people in similar situations would react in similar ways.[ * Yes, presumably the Scottish starship got the whale that reacted to its release from servitude and torture by horrifically and sadistically murdering everybody aboard, while giggling to itself and dancing to bad electro-pop music...
You see that's a really clever concept from Moffat there, but I feel I should maybe get it from watching the actual episode rather than from Confidential or eventual DVD commentaries, if you see what I mean... ;D To me, it just looked like Eleven lapsing into his native Ten and then getting made to look like a rash idiot by Amy... ;D
Hmm...it didn't take long for me to start with the bashing again, did it? Presumably the more psychotic reaches of fandom are already declaring Eleven's honeymoon period Officially Over, but I think that would be unfair. There was still, as I said in my first post, a lot to like here. That dark, cynical sort of sensibility about things like the voting booth - the story really needed to be a two-parter or something to make more out of some of the ideas that got skimmed over, I think. And Matt and Karen were, as said, as brilliant as they were last week. Eleven, especially in the earlier part of the episode, was a pleasure to watch again - so strange and energetic and clever, coming on like Sherlock Holmes's geekier younger brother in figuring out the situation so quickly.
I did sort of think the same thing as johne, that the "Abdicate" button blew up the spaceship or something...good job it didn't, eh, Amy?? ;D* |
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Post by johne on Apr 10, 2010 23:31:25 GMT
One more thought: ]A big covered market filled with random London street furniture -- they've managed to create one of the few places in the Universe where the TARDIS actually blends in with its surroundings.[
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Post by clocketpatch on Apr 10, 2010 23:40:22 GMT
Right, I've finished laughing at Doctor Star Whale (not really) and have something a bit more coherent to share:
1. THE MOFF IS KEEPING CLASSIC CANON!! The solar flares from the Arc in Space (and I think they came up again in Six's last season?) I just wiki-checked the century and he's got it right. FTW. I love reference spotting.
2. Eleven was totally up-skirting Amy when she was floating around outside the TARDIS... also... this season's Bad Wolf appears to be "find the crack" O.o
3. I am convinced Amy is the crack, and that she spreads it wherever she goes.
4. I liked the not-so subtle commentary going on about human nature in this. Who is at it's best when it's critiquing things.
5. I did not like the random repetition. The Moff needs to kill that habit. Also, the Geronimo. Gah...
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Post by Stripes on Apr 11, 2010 0:08:03 GMT
** [white] I had fun watching the episode. Though I can't help but be a bit disappointed. There was a lot of things that were in the episode that weren't needed. Like The Smilers. Other than quick little freaky vibes there was no reason for them. I liked angry!Eleven. I kept thinking he was going to start shouting about stupid apes. [/white]** **** WTF? The Turning head guys had a HUGE ROLE. They were like the police of society. They kept people in line, if you were doing something they didn't approve of, they gave the face, if you were doing something bad, they would send to the monster, if you were doing something really really really bad, they would come out of their boxes and do the manual work. Which I am sure they didn't enjoy as much because that meant coming out of their nice safety box. Police, they are very lazy.... well here in TO anyway.
That is also why no one touched their glass windows.
The guys in black robes, i saw them as the secret police who kidnapped you in the middle of the night. Like the U.S.S.R. had. **** |
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Post by jjpor on Apr 11, 2010 0:15:36 GMT
*LOL - yes indeed! Might be just the thing that might make the old chameleon circuit kick back into life...
Er, yeah, Clocket - I'd be lying if I said I hadn't considered the possibilities involved as regards nighties and zero-gravity - bad Eleven!!
Yeah, I did notice the way they kind of belaboured the Doctor=Whale thing here - and they did the same with some point last week. They need to stop it.
But to accentuate the positive for a moment - two Eleven moments I really loved: 1) When he hauls Amy back into the TARDIS from her floating around, and they kind of hug for a moment, and then he does this horrified/embarrassed sort of pulling away from her while also totally giving a shifty look straight to camera. I LOL'd, anyway. And 2): the bit where he admits to pickpocketing the little girl, like "Oh yes, I picked it up off the floor AFTER I COMPLETELY AND TOTALLY INNOCENTLY BUMPED INTO HER, nudge, nudge", and then admits "I took four goes." And THEN, the little girl reveals to Amy that she completely tumbled to his inept attempts at theft: "Oh yes, when your friend kept bumping into me..." My love for Eleven and Amy remains undiminished, whatever head-scratching moments this story might have contained.
Oh, and there was plenty of crack going on in this story, that's for sure... ;D
And well picked-up on the continuity ref too, Clocket! I am officially impressed. ;D*
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greatbriton
UNIT Red Shirt
I Go Ding When There is Stuff
Posts: 146
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Post by greatbriton on Apr 11, 2010 0:17:45 GMT
** [white] Yeah. I understood they were the guys that kept people in line. But why? Why these weird plastic frowny faces that turned around? Why was that in this story that was really about humans abducting a whale?
And why were the people thrown down into the mouth of a whale because they decided to use an elevator after getting a "0" on something? A bit harsh.
What I'm confused about is why these things were introduced but not questioned or explained. Because they may have saved the whale but nobody seemed to care that they were feeding their own people to the whale! For really minor reasons. They could have been normal police/people and the story would have been the same. Except for a few minutes of creepy feelings.[/white]
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Post by Stripes on Apr 11, 2010 0:32:36 GMT
** [white] Yeah. I understood they were the guys that kept people in line. But why? Why these weird plastic frowny faces that turned around? Why was that in this story that was really about humans abducting a whale? And why were the people thrown down into the mouth of a whale because they decided to use an elevator after getting a "0" on something? A bit harsh. What I'm confused about is why these things were introduced but not questioned or explained. Because they may have saved the whale but nobody seemed to care that they were feeding their own people to the whale! For really minor reasons. They could have been normal police/people and the story would have been the same. Except for a few minutes of creepy feelings.[/white] *** The police were there to keep the people in check.
People needed to stay in check so they wouldn't click the protest button.
If enough people pressed the protest button something would happen to the whale.
They thought the whale was the reason why the ship was moving.
if whale died, Britain died.
There was also some power hungry some where. They didn't address that to well.*** |
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Post by clocketpatch on Apr 11, 2010 0:43:17 GMT
I've got to agree with Newton on this one. The Smilers made perfect sense to me. I figured they were something Liz 10 and the Broadcaster guy put in place before memory wiping themselves (or, well, I guess Broadcaster guy never wiped himself, but you get the impression).
That said, I'm also completely clueless on why the Doctor apparently had NO PROBLEM with Britain feeding all of its criminals, dissidents, and 'less useful' members of society to the space whale. ...Just so long as it doesn't eat the children.
wtf?
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Post by librarylover on Apr 11, 2010 13:43:36 GMT
** I found it and watched it after DW Live last night, so I immediately had naughty thoughts about the floating in her nightie moment. DW Live does that to you! I blame Clocket, Druidlady, and GreatBritain mostly. They lead me astray.
I agree with Newton's point about the scary robot guys. I think they needed to be inhuman to ensure that they were properly ruthless. (They actually reminded me a little of the Zoltar machine from the movie "Big".) I think perhaps the point of the children who scored a Zero being fed to the monster was that they weren't able to be properly conditioned, so society was unsure if they could be counted on to press the 'Forget' button.
Apparently some interesting weddings are going to happen in the royal family in the next few centuries, because the queen was a. beautiful and b. not white. Liz Ten FTW! I totally want her cape.
There was also a NuWho reference that everyone seems to have missed. In the scene where Amy picked the lock, the sign above said Magpie Electrics. Magpie, as in the guy who was in cahoots with the Wire and sold the TV's that sucked off your face in 1953, during (coincidentally?) Elizabeth II's coronation. Could the Crack be related to the Wire? **
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Post by jjpor on Apr 11, 2010 15:20:23 GMT
** There was also a NuWho reference that everyone seems to have missed. In the scene where Amy picked the lock, the sign above said Magpie Electrics. Magpie, as in the guy who was in cahoots with the Wire and sold the TV's that sucked off your face in 1953, during (coincidentally?) Elizabeth II's coronation. Could the Crack be related to the Wire? ** * Yeah...yeah... Well, considering my general opinion of The Idiot's Lantern, I think that possibility requires a similar reaction to the one I gave the Brig's death in Companion vs Companion...
*drops to knees and shakes fists at a cruel and uncaring universe*
NNNNOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Ahem. Having said that, though, you could see how a concept like the Wire might be right up Moffat's alley and how he might do it much better than in its initial episode. I prefer to think though it was just a little continuity ref for the sharp-eyed fan.* |
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Post by wanderlust on Apr 25, 2010 20:41:13 GMT
* I actually really enjoyed this episode. I was a little put out by the slight emo-yness going on and would've been kind of annoyed if I was Amy that my trying to help the Doctor just had him yelling at me, but maybe I'm too defensive. 
Anyway, I kind of liked how she put it together, even if they might have laid the whale and Doctor connection a little thick (I personally didn't feel that way, but I've only viewed the episode once).
Amy, too, is growing on me, and I do indeed love Eleven. He doesn't quite have the, "I know everything and you can trust me" vibe yet, but I've only seen two episodes, I'm sure he'll get that, soon. I wasn't too sure Ten would possess that at first, either.* |
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