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Post by jjpor on Sept 29, 2012 18:15:27 GMT
Well, it's been a quick 4-5 weeks, hasn't it? Can't believe that this half-series of NuWho is over already. Well, here it is, your thread to discuss the last episode til Xmas - The Muppets...er, the Angels Take Manhattan. Please hide any spoilers you post according to your preferred method. All I can say going in is * poor Rory - I fear for him most of all...*
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Post by clocketpatch on Oct 1, 2012 19:57:02 GMT
I was actually afraid this week. Afraid in a way I haven't been since the original Weeping Angels showed up and Ten told me not to blink.
Except, I wasn't afraid of the Angels this time. The Statue of Liberty actually made me roll my eyes a bit, though it does make me wonder about what the angels really are. Do they "possess" statues as the Doctor said, are they made or do they become? What's to stop them from leaving the statue they possess? Or can they only travel when no one is looking?
What scared me was the inevitability, because from the moment the Doctor noticed that Amy was getting older and from the instant Rory left to get coffee it was inevitable that they were both going to die. And I really like these characters.
I think they got the best exit possible and that their time with the Doctor was bizarrely functional by the end. I like how it all circled back on itself and it was confirmed that little Amelia did hear a TARDIS that night, and rewatching these past few years will take on new significance knowing that maybe Amy knew a bit more than she was letting on at times.
I think that a lot of loose ends were left hangings and I'm not entirely sure about the collector of statues or what was up with that detective at the beginning. I'm more than a bit horrified at the idea of the Weeping Angels setting up a farm to feed off people. Creepy.
I'm REALLY not sure about the Doctor's new amazing healing powers, but I've decided that he could only do that with River because she's part time something and because she shared her regenerations with him. Maybe that means he can leak some of the energy back when needed? The broken wrist was disturbingly violent for Who. Edgy even by the gritty giant body count episodes of the eighties and it didn't sit well with me.
Rory looked very good in what he was wearing this episode (not a very thinky reaction, but it needs to be said)
The musical score at the beginning made me laugh and made me wonder if Moffat has been watching the countless fanvids with that song.
A lot of Moffat's stuff... actually, a lot of stuff in general these past few years, has been leading up to climatic roof scenes. It was well done despite that and I think that the true glory of Amy and Rory's characters has never shone brighter than in that moment.
And the ending where Amy made the choice she never wanted to make, the choice that Rory had accepted that she couldn't and shouldn't make, and she made it anyways.
It also strikes me, given the ages, that they would've ended up in NYC in the 1960s - just in time to give River a proper childhood.
And... well... I have so many thoughts. They just keep on peculating around. Right now I really want to write fic where Amy and Rory send postcards from the past to their family, letting them know that they're alright.
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kirkg
Auton Daisy
"Hello, Sweetie!"
Posts: 442
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Post by kirkg on Oct 2, 2012 4:51:53 GMT
I'm not understanding that last one, Clocket. NEVERMIND, I JUST FIGURED OUT HOW TO OPEN IT AFTER ALL...
I'm wondering if anyone else is seeing any special meaning in the name of the brownstone hotel that the Angel's inhabit. That is, "Winter Quay". Does it have any special meaning to anyone? Someone on another board pointed out that the building changes it's name to Essex House in the present... but that Moffit and company seem to be rubbing our nose in the "Winter Quay" name because it's in the still shot of the opening, and is repeated anytime anyone goes on the roof, and is seen from the street.
I loaded the words into a scrabble/jumble solver, and came up with only one 8 letter word.... "Antiquer" but other than a time reference, I can't see any significance. The term Winter Quay may refer to a place to pause or to tie up your boat during the frozen winter off-season...which might seem to be an in-joke for Moffit and company, since we're awaiting the Xmas special now...and then 8 more episodes with a new companion.
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kirkg
Auton Daisy
"Hello, Sweetie!"
Posts: 442
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Post by kirkg on Oct 2, 2012 5:00:18 GMT
I'm also wondering about something that River says to Amy... that is, "never let him see the damage." Initially, it appears that she's talking about her injury, but I'm thinking about this line later when she says she'll ask Amy to write a post-script for the Doctor. Amy says that they've found each other and had a good and wonderful life together, and not to worry. That it was worth it. That is supposed to give the Doctor some comfort. However, River had just warned her never to let him see the damage, and so, I see some wiggle room for Amy and Rory to have adventures or to have NOT had a happy time. Plus, and here's a really big one for you all... Just because there's a gravestone that happens to have someone's name on it DOES NOT MEAN that they are buried there. Nor does it mean that they died then. It could be a false trail...and/or it may mean that they wind up there, but not the way we assume. Why could they not have adventures or intersect with River or the Doctor at a later point, and eventually choose to return to NYC to live? (OK, maybe British subjects don't consider living in NYC to be an acceptable alternative to merry ol' England, London or the British Isles, but they made a big point of saying the Doctor wouldn't try to land in NYC again...due to too much time distortion. Yet River says she can zip in and out with her wrist device like riding a motor bike in and out of traffic.... so are we to assume that when she asks Amy to publish the book, that it is because she can slip in there and see ol' Mom and Dad again whenever?
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kirkg
Auton Daisy
"Hello, Sweetie!"
Posts: 442
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Post by kirkg on Oct 2, 2012 5:19:19 GMT
Having just figured out how to open Clocket's missives, I had a few thoughts of my own.
I also was a bit uncomfortable with the choice that Amy makes. In fact the whole decision on the roof was a problem for me, because it implicitly implies that you can recover from committing suicide, and I don't think Dr. Who or the BBC want to be showing or encouraging kids to try this at home. Do you?
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Post by Maggadin on Oct 2, 2012 20:12:13 GMT
*This episode seems to confirm yet again that River doesn't actually know the Doctor, however much she knows about him. Since when has he acted the way she described towards his companions? It's up there with the the-Doctor's-friends-always-do-as-they're-told line And I find it rather disturbing that Eleven keeps this... thing (whatever it is) going on with her, even after seeing how unhealthy her obsession is with his own eyes. Not okay, Eleven, not okay at all. Also, the fact that she's Amy and Rory's daughter makes it even grosser, IMO. I don't understand exactly what Moffat's intentions are, here.*
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kirkg
Auton Daisy
"Hello, Sweetie!"
Posts: 442
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Post by kirkg on Oct 3, 2012 3:33:03 GMT
You know, just like that tardis blue diary, I'd love to find a copy of the Melody Malone book and actually read the adventure inside it. Wouldn't you? Do you think it's going to show up in the DW aftermarket?
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Post by johne on Oct 3, 2012 7:19:34 GMT
You know, just like that tardis blue diary, I'd love to find a copy of the Mary Malone book and actually read the adventure inside it. Wouldn't you? Do you think it's going to show up in the DW aftermarket? Apparently, yes.
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kirkg
Auton Daisy
"Hello, Sweetie!"
Posts: 442
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Post by kirkg on Oct 6, 2012 5:32:26 GMT
OMG, I know what I want for Christmas......the Melody Malone book in paperback!
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Post by jjpor on Oct 8, 2012 19:38:27 GMT
Clocket, I think I probably liked it a bit less than you did, or at least I did on the night I first watched it - my Livejoural ragings are still there for all to see. ;D Agreed about the fear, though, and the leaden, gnawing sense of inevitability. I too * rolled my eyes at Lady Liberty going walkabout - how the, what the??! ;D On the whole, I wish we'd had more of the Raymond Chandler-type pastiche with the detective bloke and the statue collector, but I agree that the ending on the rooftop (and indeed the whole idea of the Angels farming people) was magnificent, and magnificently horrible, and a great climax to the episode. Too bad about the five or ten minutes immediately following, really.* * This episode seems to confirm yet again that River doesn't actually know the Doctor, however much she knows about him. Since when has he acted the way she described towards his companions? It's up there with the the-Doctor's-friends-always-do-as-they're-told line And I find it rather disturbing that Eleven keeps this... thing (whatever it is) going on with her, even after seeing how unhealthy her obsession is with his own eyes. Not okay, Eleven, not okay at all. Also, the fact that she's Amy and Rory's daughter makes it even grosser, IMO. I don't understand exactly what Moffat's intentions are, here.* Don't want to come across like some sort of internet sycophant, but yeah, what she said. And Kirk, Kirk, Kirk...did you really think the clever marketing chaps at BBC Worldwide would miss an opportunity like that one?! Not on your life. ;D
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