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Post by primsong on Sept 4, 2009 5:01:25 GMT
Isn't Patrick Troughton great playing cannibal!Two in Two Doctors? Although the poor restaurant manager getting knifed like that and Six's subsequent fairly brutal killing of Shockeye (followed by a Bond-like quip that he's evidently so pleased by that he saves it up until he's reunited with Peri) don't sit easily with me. That sort of thing seems un-Who-like for some reason... I have to agree about the feeling that it's slightly 'off' in some way here and there, but I'll put up with just about anything for Pat Troughton. Cannibal!Two always cracks me up, he's obviously having such a great time with it. The makeup just makes it even more over the top - or under the top-hat. ;D
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Post by magnusgreel on Sept 4, 2009 18:49:53 GMT
Cannibal? Two would never eat a Time Lord!
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Post by jjpor on Sept 4, 2009 19:15:10 GMT
Cannibal? Two would never eat a Time Lord! Not intentionally, anyway.
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lostspook
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Post by lostspook on Sept 4, 2009 19:41:00 GMT
To touch on some of the above issues in my own frivolous way, I was just thinking about the first time I saw most of these Six stories, namely at my granddad's house on a Saturday afternoon after grandstand (I know at least some of them were screened then, to answer lostspook's query above...whether they all were, I could not say, but at least some of them were). I had a feeling that the S22 eps were broadcast weekdays, as with Peter Davison, but they went back to Saturdays for Trial of a Time Lord - but, then I wasn't watching. (I'd have to go look and I'd rather do something more interesting. ) I was so scared at the age of 4 by the music I used to stick my head under a cushion and shout for someone to turn it off. (My memory is of this happening after we were innocently watching the Muppets, but whether that's true or not, I couldn't say). So other than a furtive five minutes of The Five Doctors and trailers (for some reason I remember being all intrigued by the trial trailers), I never watched any till the last five minutes of The Happiness Patrol, by which time I was 11 and past being terrified in the same way. Except by Curse of Fenric, obviously. So the issue of underage watching Who really doesn't apply. I couldn't make it past the music. :lol: Which now makes this comment on the wrong thread.
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Post by jjpor on Sept 4, 2009 22:50:13 GMT
According to Wikipedia, which admittedly is probably open to dispute, Season 22 returned to Saturday broadcasting. I too would rather do something more interesting, but...well, I went and did that, didn't I? ;D If true, this information is a comfort to me, because it means I'm not imagining things about my early Who-experience...again... I remember seeing all of the Six stories on their initial broadcast...apart from Mark of the Rani...for some reason, I have no early-days memory of that. And Timelash. I remember watching Timelash, but for some reason, I was feeling particularly cowardly at that point in my young life and spent most of my time hiding from that story for some reason. Maybe my critical faculties were more advanced than I knew even at that early age... ;D On the other hand, I had obviously recovered my stiff upper lip in time for the next week's viewing, because I very vividly remember Revelation of the Daleks, with the gruesome glass Dalek and the DJ and Orcini and everything, even if at that age I didn't get any of the jokes... On reflection, what were my parents/grandparents thinking letting me watch this stuff at the age of 6-7??
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Post by clocketpatch on Sept 5, 2009 1:40:34 GMT
I seem to recall a story where the BBC got several calls from irate parents asking the station to change the Dr. Who theme music because it gave their children nightmares.
So, you were one of those children? :lol:
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Post by clocketpatch on Sept 5, 2009 1:47:15 GMT
On reflection, what were my parents/grandparents thinking letting me watch this stuff at the age of 6-7?? I used to watch Robocop at that age, DW, even super-violent 80s DW, can't be worse than that (admittedly, I wasn't -supposed- to be watching it. I just kind of sneaked in behind the sofa because my older brother was watching, and therefore it was cool) ...on retrospect, he probably shouldn't have been watching either. That was a pretty gruesome movie. Er... And X-files! The episode with the little girl getting abducted gave me nightmares for -years- Oh, and Lois & Clark, and Sliders... but those weren't actually all that violent. I liked Sliders. NuWho's opening sequence is very similar. I think that endeared me to it from the get go. Child me watched far too much TV
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lostspook
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Post by lostspook on Sept 5, 2009 9:59:25 GMT
According to Wikipedia, which admittedly is probably open to dispute, Season 22 returned to Saturday broadcasting. I know; I finally bothered to read the rest of my DWM this morning and it was in there! It's funny, because my memories of it are solely from its Saturday showing in S18 and then Trial, so I'd assumed 22 was, like the Davison era, weekday evenings and pretty much inaccessible to me as a nipper at the mercy of parents watching soaps and the news. I am frequently wrong however, so this news was not a shock. At this point I was (a year older than you, I think - aww, little JJPOR!) just wistfully aware of DW and that it looked interesting. Especially Trial of a Time Lord. Heh. Actually, I bet I would have loved it. Except Mindwarp, which I would have hated. How did the children survive the 80s? JJ, care to explain? And Clocket, my parents kindly made sure DW was swiftly turned off in my house, so I wasn't scarred for life by the music, but I do remember being very amused by the time I got to uni and I had about three or four friends who would happily watch the X-Files but panicked at the idea of watching DW because the music was so scary! ;D
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Post by jjpor on Sept 5, 2009 15:10:49 GMT
How did the children survive the 80s? JJ, care to explain? *shrugs* Your guess is as good as mine... The 80s certainly seemed to be a time for ultraviolent films etc, and I think I watched most of them at a far too young age. Ah well, it did me no harm... I still watch some of that trash today, just for the crack. Speaking of Robocop, one of the most hilariously funny things I have ever seen in my life is the incompetently edited-for-TV version that they used to show on ITV in the early 90s, when restrictions on language/violence on British TV seem to have been much stricter than they are now (I mean - look at Torchwood! ). Anyway, I seem to remember it being edited for violence to the extent that the plot was more or less incomprehensible, and a good 50% of the dialogue was dubbed over with less offensive alternatives. Particularly hilarious was one scene where the corporate baddie was recounting to one of his associates the names he used to call the "old man" behind his back, and he says something like; "one time, I even called him [obviously different voice]air-head[/obviously different voice]." Ah, happy memories... Mind you, the edited version of Ghostbusters they used to show was not much better. Surprisingly high cussing quotient in Ghostbusters. Ah well, it was the 80s. As regards irrational childhood TV fears, I used to be absolutely terrified by the Incredible Hulk. I used to watch it up to the point where he actually changed into the Hulk, and then hide my eyes. I couldn't even get that far with Worzel Gummidge; just the picture of Pertwee in scarecrow makeup that they used to show when they were announcing that it was on next used to be enough to get me shrieking for the telly to be turned over. I think the reason I don't love Three more than I do is that I still harbour some subconscious grudge against Pertwee for scaring me as a child... ;D On topic, you say? Well, one thing regarding Timelash; the reason I don't really remember watching this one is that the sight of the baddie's hand before they actually revealed him had a similar effect upon me to the picture of Pertwee mentioned above. I literally didn't want to see any more. I'd like to stress that my memories of most Five and Six stories I watched as a nipper are particular scenes/images rather than the whole story all the way through, which is probably why some of this garishly violent stuff seems to leap to the fore. My memory isn't _that_ good. I only really started understanding it, I think, when I was about nine or ten and Seven was the Doctor, which is why he's still my favourite I suppose. Now, if I could just remember what I was doing when Mark of the Rani was on (instead of watching it)...
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Post by lostspook on Sept 5, 2009 20:42:37 GMT
That's interesting - not the Varos video nasties so much as the Worzel Gummidge thing. I kind of liked it, but only because of Aunt Sally. It scared me that he could take his head off. You know, that may explain the fact that I also have Three-issues. I mean, can you trust a man who goes round with more than one head? I'd never thought of that. Maybe this is why I also cannot bow at the altar of the Mighty Pertwee. (Or possibly his continual appearance under scary hair in Carry On films?) I was more scared by Miss Marple than anything else I can remember. Apart from a random clip of an old film I saw where they were poisoning someone with cake. Oh, and Columbo scared me a bit - the way he hunts down his victims villains. DW did scare my sister - she loved Ghostlight and Fenric, but the previous year had run in terror when the Cybermen appeared (and wouldn't come back even when I told them it was a different story), and she is to this day scared of black cats because of Survival. Mind you, she also managed as a supposedly cool teenager to find the Sea Devils scary when they made their way onto BBC2. I wasn't allowed to mention them to her at night. (And this from a girl who had been watching Casualty for years and if waiting for the accidents to happen in that isn't scary, what is?) Yes, very off topic. Well, you see, at this time, I was... I don't know. What was I doing if it was back on a Saturday evening? Maybe watching old comedy films with my Dad? Or, more likely, playing complicated games with my sisters. So what WERE you doing when they showed Mark of the Rani, because that one was quite fun. You see, the only films I noticed they edited ever were Grease (ITV still edits out the ear-piercing scene, would you believe?) and The Goonies, because, talk of being scared of something - the putting Chuck's hand in the liquidiser! It gets cut out when they show it on TV and I don't blame them. But then both of them get shown pre-Watershed.
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Post by primsong on Sept 6, 2009 4:30:48 GMT
...I had about three or four friends who would happily watch the X-Files but panicked at the idea of watching DW because the music was so scary! ;D Wait, what? It's scary? I've managed to get through most of life with almost zero horror/scary films in my experience (though sometimes it's taken some quick ducks) I am baffled at it's scariness.. must come from early association with alien monsters? I wish I could have seen it when I was a small child, alas, I lack 'hazy' memories of couch-hiding, I feel so deprived... by the time I was watching it I was old enough to just get all excited about it instead of hiding. Is it a requirement to have terror be one of the associations to be a True Fan? And I can see where Worzel head-swapping could have been a bit disturbing to a tot.
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Post by johne on Sept 6, 2009 8:01:23 GMT
Is it a requirement to have terror be one of the associations to be a True Fan? I hope not, or I'd be out on my ear I never found the theme music scary, in any of its arrangements -- only thrilling. Mind, that eye at the bottom of the pit in Greatest Show...
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Post by jjpor on Sept 6, 2009 11:57:57 GMT
Worzel Gummidge, as far as my infant self was concerned, was the stuff of nightmares. I really couldn't say why now - kids, eh?
Miss Marple? Funnily enough, I will always associate Miss Marple with Doctor Who, because I remember it being the programme that was on before Remembrance of the Daleks when it first aired. Remembrance made a huge impact on my ten-year-old self, and remains a big part of why I like Seven so much. That soldier flying through the air in the first episode is kind of burned into my memory.
I also seem to remember a Miss Marple where Peter Davison turned out to be the murderer in the end...
And, believe me, when I start into this "Aye, when I were a lad all this were fields" sort of stuff (which I find hard to stop once I start!), I'm not really trying to lay claim to some sort of superior, British strain of Whovianness, you know, "I was watching Doctor Who and cowering behind that sofa before I was even born!". Well, as I've made clear, many of my early Who memories are so hazy and so embroidered by hindsight and repeated viewings over the years that I don't think I can even be sure some of them are memories at all...
I do think it's really interesting though how the different experiences of watching Doctor Who in the 80s on either side of the Atlantic, placed as it was in different slots and watched by different sorts of audiences, really shape our perceptions of the show and what it was. I think that's interesting, and I think it relates back to some of the issues Magnus addressed in his posts above.
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lostspook
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Post by lostspook on Sept 6, 2009 12:31:00 GMT
Yes, people who take their heads off are scary. Heh. Miss Marple was too frail to stop people getting killed and then she sprayed insecticide into someone's eyes. (Sleeping Murder). I think I saw a tiny bit of the Caribbean one too, and that was more than enough for me. However, I picked A Pocketful of Rye up in a charity shop last year (Review here, if you're interested: lost-spook.livejournal.com/6033.html#cutid1), so I know what you're talking about. If i'd seen that when it was showed, I'd have needed counselling. I didn't watch DW, but my parents were always watching All Creatures, and my sister and I used to end up hanging around just in case Tristan was in it. (It was boring when he wasn't!) And Primsong, I didn't start watching DW till I was 11, so I've never been scared of it in that unreasoning, childish, behind-the-sofa way (although I occasionally felt the need to hang on to a cushion). I found the Cybermen scary in a good way and Greatest Show creepy, also Fenric scary in a good way, but no, I've never done that either, so count me as not a real fan either. Mind you, I do have a love of Seven, because he was the one who made these things not-scary, because nobody ever got killed when he was on screen - he was the Doctor! It was only when he wasn't on screen I ever got scared. Should I say that on a Colin thread? I have to say, his episodes have a lot of problems, but I like Six. I particularly like writing for him (which I'm doing right now) and that combination of superficial overblown bluster with perhaps caring even more than some of his other incarnations always gives plenty to play with. And you can stick in occasional OTT dialogue. My first bit of fan fic was a Six story, because I felt he really deserved some good stories. (Er. Not that mine actually was, but still). And, thanks to BF, we can have Evelyn, too, who loves him dearly, puts him in his place, doles out common sense and cares about the people she meets. And knits. (DW & the Pirates is such a wonderfully clever story - I may have mentioned this before - it plays about with the audio format, is quite ridiculous and metatextual and has a musical episode - a musical episode! - but proves to have a very good reason for doing so.)
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Post by johne on Sept 6, 2009 21:58:33 GMT
Miss Marple was too frail to stop people getting killed Not a problem with the new adaptation I just watched -- the Julia McKenzie incarnation looks as if she could survive being shot by a Special Weapons Dalek at point-blank range. Other than that, it was a surprisingly accurate adaptation; closer to the book than I remember the BBC version being. Oh, and their version of Adele (bleach-blonde ex-shopgirl) made me think that if ever this was to be a Storytime, she'd be played by Rose Tyler
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Post by magnusgreel on Sept 7, 2009 8:57:14 GMT
Another way in which DW was different for me is that I never had a time when I was actually scared by DW. I was 20 or 21 when I saw it for the first time. That changes the context further. It took "evil" on the level of Sutekh to begin to be disturbing to me...
In the Colins this time, in this last marathon, Colin was the best thing about them to me. What I really would have liked is a grave adult situation a la Fang Rock, in which Six's manner and appearance would had a chance to shine. In Timelash, everything is colorful and crazy and OTT, therefore a Six is just lost in the background noise. In a Fang Rock, Six's entry into the story would have, or could have been very special, handled correctly.
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Post by lostspook on Sept 7, 2009 18:05:16 GMT
Firstly, Magnus, what a lovely idea for fic! Swapping Doctors around - I seem to remember DWM doing an article like this, but they were (unusually) quite boringly serious about it.
And, John, I just watched that, too. I was surprised, although it has to be said so many people are described as being plain / week / unattractive in that one, that it was very amusing - Elaine Fortescue was called plain several times in a row, despite being played by a stunning blonde. I was too distracted by the sheer charm of watching Matthew Mcfayden's inspector be totally manipulated by Miss Marple to pay attention to much else, barring Liz White. They needed to give Julia McKenzie less make up because she, like everyone else, looks too glamorous! Otherwise, I liked her in the role. Just no visible make-up, ITV!
And, yes re Rose, although that is a dangerous way to think, you know!!
And... this has got to be so off topic now. Whoops.
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Post by johne on Sept 7, 2009 20:54:04 GMT
Elaine Fortescue was called plain several times in a row, despite being played by a stunning blonde. [Runs away to TV Tropes to add her to Hollywood Homely.] I'll stop now. I hope.
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Post by reversethepolarity on Aug 29, 2010 6:09:58 GMT
Vengeance on Varos.
One of my favorite episodes, I'd love to watch it at any time. It was very well written and had some wonderful dialogue and characters. There wasn't a single character in this episode that I found unrealistic (well, except maybe Quillam) and that's rare in the wonder that is Doctor Who. = ) The Governor became one of my favorite one-shot characters. I also loved the story. It was deep and powerful and I really liked the way it kept going back to the man and woman watching the show. The ending, when it switches off and they don't know what to do with their freedom; that was extremely powerful.
I also thought this episode had some of Colin's best acting. He was in true form here and on top of his game, still the complex Doctor I love before BBC toned him down (I love him after that, but I missed the complexity.) He's witty and brash and daring and full of a need for justice. Everything I love about Six. Not to mention he gets very theatrical here. His 'death' scene was done superbly and I was actually rather worried the first time I watched it. I tend to love episodes that have a really great, self-contained planet, too. Something we miss in NuWho. I believed in Varos and could easily see it as a real planet with real people. I like that. Plus, I actually liked the violence in this episode. Not on it's own merit, but it worked with the story and added a level of intensity and seriousness that really fit Varos.
Though, you know, I might pick The Trial of the Time Lord. I mean, technically it is one, long episode, isn't it? = ) That would certainly help pass the time. And maybe if it was the only thing I had to watch, it would start making some sense. Heh. Plus, I'd love seeing the Valeyard every day.
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Post by lostspook on Aug 29, 2010 17:27:12 GMT
Vengeance on Varos is my favourite Six episode, too. There's some Dodgy Acting *cough*Areta!*cough*) but when isn't there? Other than that, it's just excellent, and Sil is a strong candidate for best new villain of the 80s.
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