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Post by clocketpatch on Oct 11, 2008 18:23:10 GMT
Magnus, you do know that you can't say something like that and NOT give further explanation right??? BTW, this link might be faster if you haven't got past the enter screen yet: john-levene.com/main/ |
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Post by magnusgreel on Oct 11, 2008 18:51:05 GMT
Thanks cp... I just bookmarked that page myself. Then that page took a long time, too. My computer isn't much newer than those Devil's End photos!
"Magnus, you do know that you can't say something like that and NOT give further explanation right???"
Why of course, I was merely toying with you.... Despite everything (medical), years ago I managed to get to three or four DW conventions. There was some dispute involving "professional" fan Eric Hoffman (who had managed to get himself invited as an official con guest) and... it turns out I've forgotten more of this than I thought. Eric was mad at our club, or something, and somehow, for some reason, the club's solution was to take our hand-question-marked boxer shorts that we had used in the costume contest (we had all seven doctors onstage-- us-- and after someone at the microphone posed the question "Have you ever wondered what the Doctor wears under his costume?" we were all to drop 'em, and we did, except that our hostess (also in our club) forgot (?) to speak the intro... so we sort of uncomfortably dropped 'em in a more disorganized way than we had planned) and present them backstage to be handed to Mr. Pertwee, who would then present them to Eric Hoffman, thus repairing some rift between somebody, maybe between the club and Hoffman. I really didn't understand many things our club did... I was just along for the ride much of the time.
We had all drawn big red question marks on our boxers and they chose one to use for this incomprehensible purpose, mine. Apparently I had a flair for Who-ing up underwear. All this was a joke about John Nathan-Turner's insistence on putting question marks all over everything in DW in the 80s, something he took a lot of grief for.
So, my boxers were passed to someone backstage, and Mr. Pertwee really did give them onstage, in a magnificent ceremony, to... Hoffman I guess it was. I have no clue how they sold the idea to JP or made any sense of it for him.
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Post by clocketpatch on Oct 11, 2008 19:45:20 GMT
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Post by Aldebaran on Oct 11, 2008 21:46:15 GMT
Magnus, you're my hero. XD That's BRiLLIANT! Man... that sucks that your hostess didn't deliver the line. It would have made it THAT much funier! ;D Now you have me wondering, though.  What DOES the doctor wear under his costume? |
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Post by jjpor on Oct 12, 2008 1:47:53 GMT
Magnus, this Eric Hoffman sounds a lot like the (in)famous Ian Levine (no relation to the great John Levene!) of 80s Who fandom notoriety, here in the UK at least... He apparently claims (dubiously) to have co-written Attack of the Cybermen, something that Eric Saward vehemently denies. I don't think I'd be owning up to writing Attack of the Cybermen even if I had!!! Although, it does have the late, very great, Brian Glover in it...
On a tangent, I do quite like Eric Saward, just for the couple of DVD-extra documentaries I've seen him in, where he comes across as a complete misanthrope who is disarmingly honest about the shortcomings of the stories he oversaw, unlike (the late) JNT, who tries to claim, inexplicably, that even crap like "Resurrection of the Daleks" "still works"! And Revelation of the Daleks is his Meisterwerk - I will love him forever just for writing that...
And to continue, I do find the John Levene website to be very satisfying indeed; the obvious love that he still has for the show, and especially for Jon Pertwee, is nothing short of heartwarming; Sgt Benton remains one of the very best things about the whole UNIT era.
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Post by magnusgreel on Oct 12, 2008 5:00:40 GMT
Thanks cp und Al!
jjpor--- (by the way, please explain significance of name sometime, if you're not too busy! I mean, it's not exactly obvious!) I think Eric Hoffman might have been a bit like the American version of Ian Levine, except that Ian actually did something: apparently he did walk into the BBC at some point and say please don't throw out any more classic Dr Who stories pretty please.... supposedly he stopped "The Daleks" from being lobbed into a BBC dumpster, unless he's building up his legend a bit too much, which I wouldn't be totally surprised about if he were....
I joined IL's message board a year or two ago, but haven't gone back there for awhile.
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Post by Aldebaran on Oct 12, 2008 12:25:19 GMT
What I don't understand is why the BBC would exterminate their episodes in the first place. They should at least keep backup archival copy if anything. I mean (excuse the language) who's dumbass idea was it? It's all been said before. I know. But It needs to be said. |
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Post by jjpor on Oct 12, 2008 20:10:44 GMT
jjpor--- (by the way, please explain significance of name sometime, if you're not too busy! I mean, it's not exactly obvious!) Oh, no real significance, or no Who-related significance anyway; it's sorta my initials, is all; boring, huh? Yes, I'd heard the thing about Ian Levine saving the old Who stories, and for that alone we ought to be grateful to him. I think the fact that JNT felt he needed a semi-official fan consultant says a lot about the direction taken by 80s Who, and a lot about the things that went wrong with it. There's a good story about how JNT was one day telling IL about upcoming stories and mentioned that they had a really good one coming up. IL said "Is that the one by Bob Holmes?", and JNT replied "No; it's called the Twin Dilemma!" Says it all... |
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Post by magnusgreel on Oct 13, 2008 15:31:05 GMT
I should let you know cp that this gave me a big lift-- thanks. You too Aldebaran. As for "forgetting" the intro to the pants-dropping, I think she just might have been more interested in entertaining herself at that moment.... As for the other onstage moment, I think Mr. Pertwee treated all of it as if it made sense, but then he's an actor...! jjpor-- I know the drawbacks in having too much fannish input, but I think it's a mixed bag. At least it was uberfan Ian who knew Holmes was great, while JNT didn't even want to use any older writers for a long time, and apparently thought we'd all love "Twin Dilemma"! Who can keep continuity on track like a fan? All shows should have a fan consultant or two, they just shouldn't look to them for creative ideas. A fan consultant who knows all the novels and audios as well as the series would be a godsend, at least for old-fashioned people like me who think continuity is just competent storytelling. |
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Post by clocketpatch on Oct 13, 2008 16:53:51 GMT
Glad to have given you a lift Magnus ;D
I think a fan consultant is, in some ways, a very good idea, for exactly the reasons you mentioned. Though, especially in a show like DW, the people in charge do have to be carefully not to get too bogged down in continuity, to the point of alienating everyone (but nor should they ignore it!).
The fans should only be in advisor positions though, because the fan is fickle and knows not what he wants (also, the fan factions are at constant war and catering to one group, say the Drosers, may lead to a fan revolt).
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Post by Aldebaran on Oct 13, 2008 20:18:13 GMT
Fan warfare is one of the ugliest things in the world. On one forum I was on, I chose to walk in at a really bad time because the Rose Tyler/David Tennant fans were at war with the classic Whovians. No lie. There was an argument on every thread it seemed. It was nasty. Hey Magnusgreel, I'm glad I lifted you, but I can honestly say that you lifted me more. XD That was the most hysterical thing I've heard in weeks. |
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Post by jjpor on Oct 13, 2008 23:01:23 GMT
All shows should have a fan consultant or two, they just shouldn't look to them for creative ideas. I think that's a good point - the best of both worlds. As you say, staying consistent with what has gone before is simply good writing - if you read a novel where Chapter Ten contradicted Chapter One (unless it was deliberate!), or a character's name changed halfway through, you'd think something was iffy. Unless, of course, you can improve upon it - I think there is sometimes a place for retconning and reimagining, provided it is explained away elegantly and really is an improvement on existing canon (ie. NOT Star Trek: Enterprise!). However, there is a difference between self-consistency and fanw*nk (dunno if that's acceptable language), which is what stuff like Attack of the Cybermen fell into (and I'll reiterate, why do so many people want to take credit for such a stinker of a story?!) As others have observed, civil wars are the most bitter wars, and when Whovians turn upon each other it is a terrible, but unfortunately not uncommon, thing; I don't think the show's producers can ever afford to be seen to be favouring one faction's interpretation over another's. |
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Post by clocketpatch on Oct 14, 2008 2:10:06 GMT
Agreed, fan warfare is a scary, scary thing. I hope that the only fan warfare ever seen on this board is the good-natured lolzy kind associated with the Doctor v Doctor competitions.
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Post by Aldebaran on Oct 14, 2008 2:16:15 GMT
I don't think it'll ever get too gory on here, Clocket. we all love each other too much. The core members on here get along fine from what I've seen. If the occasional troublemaker joins, he probably won't stay long. (He'll just get bored because no one will fight with him, and even if we do he's outnumbered. So he'll leave. )  |
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<-- C'mon people. They're free. 
