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Robot
Dec 30, 2007 5:10:35 GMT
Post by Kit on Dec 30, 2007 5:10:35 GMT
So, just re-watched Tom's first serial, Robot. Which is so very fun and the commentaries are just brilliant. So many great scenes, and of course, Tom is the best Doctor right from the start. So many good scenes (and funny effects!). So, discussion starter: What did you love about this serial?
For me, just about everything. From the vanishing bits of the robot to Four and Harry skipping rope. Plus the little scenes that just add to it, like Harry and Sarah helping each other untie themselves and the Doctor pretending to be dead when the Brig barges into the SRS meeting.
And of course, commentaries with Tom and Lis are the best thing since sliced bread. xD Loved Tom going on about tights once Lis said she hated them.
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eponymousrose
UNIT Red Shirt
Would you mind not standing on my chest? My hat's on fire.
Posts: 21
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Robot
Jan 4, 2008 1:42:56 GMT
Post by eponymousrose on Jan 4, 2008 1:42:56 GMT
I get the distinct impression that I should try to get my hands on more of these commentaries!
I enjoyed "Robot" much more the second time around, once I'd seen Pertwee's era and wasn't all baffled over these UNIT guys that kept popping up. But it was my first Classic Who serial, and it kept me hooked long enough to go looking for "The Ark in Space", at which point I was hopelessly obsessed.
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Robot
Jan 4, 2008 2:48:37 GMT
Post by Kit on Jan 4, 2008 2:48:37 GMT
Yeah, UNIT very much confused me until I went back and saw more of them. Now I utterly love them. ^^
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eponymousrose
UNIT Red Shirt
Would you mind not standing on my chest? My hat's on fire.
Posts: 21
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Robot
Jan 4, 2008 2:59:50 GMT
Post by eponymousrose on Jan 4, 2008 2:59:50 GMT
Yeah, UNIT very much confused me until I went back and saw more of them. Now I utterly love them. ^^ Yes! So much love for UNIT!
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Robot
Jan 4, 2008 6:05:12 GMT
Post by clocketpatch on Jan 4, 2008 6:05:12 GMT
My first real classic serial (asside from fuzzy memories of watching <i>something</i>, might have been Key to Time, when I was two) was The Sontaran Experiment. Which is squished right between two episodes and confused the hell out of me.
Then I saw Robot (which was also confusing) but Tom got me hooked, and then <i>someone</i> was nice enough to start posting all of Tom's episodes on youtube, and then <i>someone</i> was nice enough to do the same for the other Doctors. And thus an obsession was born.
I've loved UNIT since I first saw them in Aliens of London though. The episode sucked, and UNIT was definitely not up to par, but at that point I knew nothing about the Doctor's past (heck, I didn't even know what a Dalek was yet) and the little hints were very tantalizing.
And then there was that comment about him drinking his UNIT friends under the table...
Did that turn into a rant? Sorry. I'll just finish it then by saying that the Brig is my hero, Benton is my teddybear, and Four has the best wardobe choosing scene of any Doctor.
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Robot
Jan 4, 2008 6:56:08 GMT
Post by Kit on Jan 4, 2008 6:56:08 GMT
Haha, quite. ^^
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Robot
Jan 6, 2008 3:02:52 GMT
Post by clocketpatch on Jan 6, 2008 3:02:52 GMT
Sorry. I have a tendancy to wax verbose, but I'm sur eyou're all aware of that by now.
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Robot
Feb 10, 2009 4:50:39 GMT
Post by Stripes on Feb 10, 2009 4:50:39 GMT
I never really liked four and I had no reason. He is everyones favourite doctor.
I just watched Robot to give Four a try. I can see why everyone loves him. He does have his moments that I very much enjoyed.
I liked the ending of Robots but also hated it. I liked how they just popped right in and ran away with Brig going "oh... they left. Ok" . I do wish Benton was there when the bluebox left. His final scene was brig telling him to save Sarah and him going "ok". That isn't much of an ending. If he walked in the room with Brig and went something like " I wish they took me" I would have been very happy with the ending of UNIT.
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Robot
Feb 10, 2009 5:20:34 GMT
Post by clocketpatch on Feb 10, 2009 5:20:34 GMT
It amuses me greatly that spell check has apparently turned the Brig into a Bridge.
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Robot
Feb 10, 2009 6:54:09 GMT
Post by primsong on Feb 10, 2009 6:54:09 GMT
I was grinning about that too.
the Brig is my hero, Benton is my teddybear, and Four has the best wardobe choosing scene of any Doctor. I completely snuggle this sentence.
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Robot
Feb 10, 2009 9:39:27 GMT
Post by magnusgreel on Feb 10, 2009 9:39:27 GMT
I think after this, from Ark in Space on, we get a grimmer, testier Four, then lighter Four returns when Graham Williams takes over. That's an exaggeration, but Hinchcliffe seemed to be making Four more serious the entire time he was in charge, then DW went the other way. Thanks to Mary Whitehouse.
I like it when Four goofs with people. I like anyone who lets the wind out of others' pretentiousness as long as it's in the right spirit. "Don't you mean the infirmary?" I'm not sure it's really possible to force another person to jump rope along with you, but Tom managed it!
Pertwee was great, but there's this extra, magical... "thing" that Tom brings to DW.
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Robot
Feb 10, 2009 17:17:11 GMT
Post by Stripes on Feb 10, 2009 17:17:11 GMT
It amuses me greatly that spell check has apparently turned the Brig into a Bridge. That is me writing at 12:00am and being very tired. Curse Who for keeping me up all night.
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Robot
Feb 11, 2009 21:37:35 GMT
Post by magnusgreel on Feb 11, 2009 21:37:35 GMT
I never really liked four and I had no reason. He is everyones favourite doctor. I just watched Robot to give Four a try. I can see why everyone loves him. He does have his moments that I very much enjoyed. It concerns me a little that you belittle your own tastes and perceptions sometimes, if they differ from the majority's. It's great to give things another try because others like that thing much more than you do, that's open-mindedness. It's also possible to be right about something even when masses of intelligent people disagree. I know I have to deal with that difficulty day in and day out on various topics, where my experience and logic tells me something that goes against what's considered "common sense". (I don't think sense is common, by the way.) In the DW parody club I was in, Five was the general favorite. In the UK, I think Seven was about equal with Four for awhile. Now of course Ten rules. (I expect the Ten popularity to drop sharply when Ten isn't current anymore, just because there are so many fans these days who lose interest when episodes of their favorite show stop being made). Three seems to rule here. Me, I'm a Four man, and I think I'm right, but we all do...
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Robot
Feb 11, 2009 22:55:25 GMT
Post by clocketpatch on Feb 11, 2009 22:55:25 GMT
If it makes you feel better Newton, I'm not much of a Four fan either, well, that is to say, I don't like his entire runs. Early Four is the Classic of the Classic. His first three season are among the best television ever made, but after that it all gets a bit... tired? I donnu, maybe this is what happens when you watch seven years worth of television in two months. In retrospect, that really wasn't very bright of me, but I wanted to see it all before it went *poof* off the interwebs.
Now I wish I'd waited not had it all go stale.
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Robot
Feb 12, 2009 7:08:00 GMT
Post by magnusgreel on Feb 12, 2009 7:08:00 GMT
Cp... Marathoning can be detrimental. I know someone who watches his DW on DVD every Sunday night (I think) at the usual time that his PBS station used to run it years ago. That's a good policy for those who are in a position to follow schedules.
Still, the Tom era does run out of steam gradually. The big change happens after Mary Whitehouse thought the kiddies would be scarred by seeing Tom's face slightly underwater for two seconds in Deadly Assassin. So the BBC replaced Hinchcliffe with Williams, but Holmes was still script editor, so season 15 was still fairly solid and adult, but then Holmes left (pushed out?), and they had to go with light comedy instead. Watching it all over a longer stretch of time does soften the blow quite a bit, and it helps one appreciate the positives of late 70s Who.
Lately I've come to think in terms of Four #1 and Four #2, as if there was a regeneration in or after season 15 that was purely mental and not physical.
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Robot
Feb 12, 2009 20:36:27 GMT
Post by jjpor on Feb 12, 2009 20:36:27 GMT
Yes, I'd agree that the Four era is a bit of a game of two halves, as we say about football here in the UK. As I may have said elsewhere, as a youngster, I didn't really rate Four as highly as a lot of other people seemed to, but he grew on me as I saw more of his stories. I'm not sure which is the greatest Who story of all time, but it's probably in there somewhere ;D. Personally, I like both halves for different reasons, while recognising that the Holmes-Hinchcliffe era is generally superior in writing, acting etc. Still, there are some gems in Four's last three seasons, and it's all very entertaining provided you don't take it too seriously. I'd argue that some of the 80s Who stories that came after could have done with a bit more humour at times. I'll admit to quite liking Season 18, though; you can see the change in tone and direction that JNT and Chris Bidmead wanted to inject, and for the most part it works, to begin with. I think the Leisure Hive is a bit underrated, and I'd say Warriors' Gate haunts my dreams a little, if that didn't make me sound weird.
And, yes, Newton, I'd agree with what others have said; there are no right answers when it comes to this sort of thing. I think at the end of the day it's largely a matter of personal taste as to which Doctor is "your" Doctor (and also down to things like which Doctor was the first one you saw). I say this, you understand, as an unreconstructed Seven fan who is prepared to argue that the Happiness Patrol and Greatest Show in the Galaxy are works of genius (and, to be fair, they are, compared to Time and the Rani ;D).
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Robot
Feb 12, 2009 21:13:59 GMT
Post by IMForeman on Feb 12, 2009 21:13:59 GMT
See, it's strange, I have this urge to rail against typical fanboy favorites when it comes to old-school, and particularly Four's stories. I'm usually not like this at all! But I genuinely do like most of his run, except for Season 18 which I think sucks most of the fun out of it, though I don't dislike all of it. You know what? The best Four is the Barry Letts era. It's very consistent, you've got to give it that.
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Robot
Feb 12, 2009 23:25:02 GMT
Post by clocketpatch on Feb 12, 2009 23:25:02 GMT
I really do want to watch Horns of Nimmon again. Actually, one day I really want to take the BBC website up on its suggestion (it assures me that the episode is "Rather wonderful with some friends and a bottle of wine.") though that could be said of most of Who actually... though I've only ever tested the theory with Warriors of the Deep (kung-fu the Myrka!)
The middle bit of Tom great reign (I divide it into a game of three halves, personally, because season 18 is just something else) is always watchable if a bit naft. You can laugh at it if nothing else.
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Robot
Feb 14, 2009 0:36:26 GMT
Post by jjpor on Feb 14, 2009 0:36:26 GMT
I may have sounded a little patronising towards Seasons 16-17 in my post above - "very entertaining provided you don't take it too seriously" - but that wasn't my intention at all - when I say I like Four's various eras for different reasons, I really do mean it. I know stories like Genesis of the Daleks, Brain of Morbius, Pyramids of Mars and Talons of Weng-Chiang are fanboy favourites, but they're fanboy favourites for a reason - i.e., they're brilliant! Nevertheless, the last three Four seasons have a lot to recommend them. The Key to Time season throws up some real gems - my personal favourites are Androids of Tara and the Ribos Operation - and Romana (both I and II, although to be honest I incline towards II - don't think any less of me! ;D) is a fascinating character with a fascinating love/irritation relationship with the Doctor. And, Season 17 has its detractors, but I will fight to the death (or, more likely, to the hurt ) the man who claims City of Death isn't up there in the running for potential Best. Who Story. Ever. I love it, in a quite unreasonable way, just as I love some of the Season 18 stories. Yes, it is the beginning of the dread JNT era, but there are some good stories there. I'll reiterate what I said about the Leisure Hive being underrated, but things like Meglos and State of Decay have their moments - they feel almost like Season 17 stories carried over, which they likely were - and Warriors' Gate is...well, Warriors' Gate. I feel something similar towards it as I feel towards City of Death - for me, all of the pieces seem to fall into place, and it just _works_ as a story; I fully appreciate that the mileage of others may vary, I have long since given up trying to justify my liking for certain Who stories as being based on anything other than personal taste. ;D
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Robot
Feb 14, 2009 22:37:06 GMT
Post by magnusgreel on Feb 14, 2009 22:37:06 GMT
I think seasons 16 and 17 still have that special Tom era magic, with lots of interesting detail and ideas and challenging Whoish takes on situations; it's just that there are more flaws than with Hinchcliffe/Holmes too. BBC interference, softer and less Who-ish script editors (D Adams should have been perfect but wasn't), took their toll, a more easily intimidated (by Tom, by the BBC) producer too. Also for whatever reason the rush to get stories out showed, and certain aspects seem sloppy and poorly thought out. I hear that Pirate Planet had interesting moments and development for Romana all of which was just cut out.
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