What Happens in the TARDIS Stays in the TARDIS

[jjpor]

As much as I may hesitate to link to the Daily Mail, I wonder if anybody has seen this:

www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-1303118/As-drunk-Time-Lord-How-Doctor-Who-Doctor-Booze-young-star.html

I mean, it is only "breaking news" in the sense that the idea that The Happiness Patrol might, just might, have some sort of anti-Thatcherite subtext was allegedly "news". I think anybody with a nodding acquaintance with the making of oldschool Who is well aware that Big Tommy B, at his height, was mad, bad and dangerous to know in addition to his other more admirable qualities, as he himself has been quite open about in his own memoirs and interview. No, I'm strangely amused/not amused about Matthew Waterhouse waiting thirty years to "shock" us with these revelations, when he himself was, from what I hear, not exactly an angel on-set either. I suppose he had the excuse of only being a mere lad at the time, but still...

And the anecdote about the kid in the car park, while reprehensible, is strangely touching. Wrong, but touching. I bet that kid had a good story to tell his mates about it!

[Maggadin]

Yeah, I don't blame him for thinking he was a nightmare to work with. I think I would think that, too, but this sort of smacks of PAY ATTENTION TO MEEEEE!!! And I've heard that MW wasn't the easiest to deal with, either. I mean, didn't Lalla Ward pretty much leave because of him (the more I hear, the more sympathy I have for her, really)?

[jjpor]

I think there were other factors in Lalla, and indeed Tom, moving on when they did, a lot to do with John Nathan-Turner wanting a clean slate after he'd taken over as producer etc, but certainly she and Matthew Waterhouse by all accounts did not get on at all. And then there's the amusing story about him trying to tell Richard "Dambusters" Todd how to act when they were making Kinda...

I suppose the thing that really gets me about that article though is the idea that the Daily Mail obviously considers it to be some sort of shocking expose when I would think that the majority of people who could care less about Matthew Waterhouse or Tom Baker would already be well aware of some of these "revelations" from other sources.

Mind you, this is the sort of tosh the Daily Mail seriously tries to pass off as news (they're like The Sun for people who are too snobbish to read The Sun):

www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-1303831/Doctor-Who-star-Karen-Gillan-bad-hair--dress--day.html

I mean, WTF?? How dispiriting must it be for a professional actor to know that they can't even venture out of the house without being mocked/criticised/leered at like that? I mean, Matt Smith can't go out with his girlfriend without that sort of nonsense. No wonder Tennant cleared off and Benedict Cumberbatch more or less said he wouldn't touch the role of the Doctor with a bargepole...

The best'/worst thing about the "story" though is this part at the bottom:

"Do you have a story about a celebrity? Call the Daily Mail showbusiness desk on 0207 938 6364 or 0207 938 6683"

Hmm...doesn't say it has to be a true story now, does it?? *tries to think of some suitably scurrilous rumour*

I guess we know where they actually get most of their Doctor Who-related "exclusives" now, though...

[clocketpatch]

Grief.

I'm more offended by the creepy Karen stalking one really. Personally, I think she looks absolutely flipping gorgeous in all of the pictures - I also think that obsessing over what the celebs are wearing WHEN THEY DO THEIR GROCERY SHOPPING is pathetic, creepy and um, creepy. Stupid creepy fans scaring away good talent.

As for MW. I've seen that quote about his first meeting with Tom Baker before. But really? How is this supposed to be a revelation?! EVERYONE but everyone knows that Tom Baker had a drinking problem. He cheerful tells people about it every chance he gets. Half of his (deeply disturbing) autobiography is devoted to it. And when he "died" of a drug overdose in the 80s people were so unsurprised that it took the man himself telling the world that reports of his death had been exaggerated to stomp out the rumour completely.

Sheesh.

[Maggadin]

Oh, I'm sure it wasn't even the main factor. Just saying you've got to sympathise with her a little, what with dealing with Baker's moodiness and Waterhouse's hístrionics at the same time.

ETA: Hey, it's my 299th post! Better make the next one epic! ;D

[IMForeman]

...oh, Matthew Waterhouse. I'm never sure whether to be amused or embarrassed by the things he says. Usually I settle for a mixture of both.

There was a big interview in the last DWM with more gems about his co-stars. Lalla Ward was weepy and seemingly crazy, Janet Fielding was frightening, and Peter Davison was bitchy. Basically. (Although, c'mon, Davison's bitchy streak is as well known by the fans as Tom Baker's drinking.) And for the record, he denies the Richard Todd story - he concedes that he might have said something "ironically."

But yeah, obviously the Tom Baker stuff is true. But he's since apologized for his behavior, whereas I don't believe Matthew Waterhouse ever has.

And I meant to add, the Karen Gillan, um, news is awful, I agree. She looks very pretty there to me, which isn't to say it would be any less awful if she actually did look bad. Okay, she does have a somewhat unusual fashion sense, but I like that about her.

[jjpor]

Aug 17, 2010 23:35:31 GMT Maggadin said:

Oh, I'm sure it wasn't even the main factor. Just saying you've got to sympathise with her a little, what with dealing with Baker's moodiness and Waterhouse's hístrionics at the same time.

ETA: Hey, it's my 299th post! Better make the next one epic! ;D

Yeah, no pressure now - it needs to be something thoughtful, witty and ground-breaking...and then when you get to 500 you need to top it!

But yeah, the latter Baker era behind the scenes sounds like a nightmare for all concerned, not least Lalla (weepy and crazy according to MW, who apparently did little but fight with her the whole time they were on the programme together, so I'm sure he's being fair and impartial in his assessment...hmm...). I've never tried, but if you watch stories like State of Decay you can supposedly tell which scenes were shot when she and Tom were talking to each other and which weren't...

But yeah, none of this is new information and dishing the dirt years after the event when all concerned have long since moved on just seems to lack class, if you ask me. Had to lol a little at Janet Fielding being described as "frightening", mind you - it's true that Tegan does come across that way sometimes... ;D

And yes, the whole media fascination with celebrity, down to things like what Karen Gillan was wearing when she went shopping...it's one of the symptoms of a deeply sick society, I tells you.

[Maggadin]

The ''weepy and crazy'' thing leaves a bad taste in my mouth because it strikes me as a possible put-down on somebody who may (or may not; I don't know more than anybody else) have been unhappy/depressed. And on this note I don't think I'll be commenting on this post anymore because it really hits my embarassment squick and feels a bit invasive.

THIS WAS MY 300TH POST. WASN'T IT EPIC???

[IMForeman]

You can very easily play the "guess whether Tom and Lalla were fighting when they filmed this!" game throughout most of Season 18. Once you notice that he isn't making eye contact or even acknowledging her existence in certain scenes it's hard not to start playing it. If you listen to any of Lalla's commentary for those stories, she rather gleefully points out examples. Look, all I can say is that I'm not much of a S18 fan and it passes the time...

Also I'm just remembering, wasn't Tom ill at the time too? Something with his thyroid? You can see he's very gaunt and unhealthy looking throughout his later stories, plus his hair had to be permed to keep it curly. That could explain part of the irritability and also the sweatiness as well. I guess Matthew Waterhouse might not have known, but his remarks seem even more unprofessional (if that's possible) in light of that information.

Aaand yeah, rereading this I think some of what he's said may make my innocent gossip sound like I'm stooping to his level, so perhaps I'd best stop as well before I start sounding tasteless. Thanks for that, Matthew Waterhouse.

[jjpor]

Heh, yeah, Lalla does give good commentary; I got the Nimon etc boxset not long ago (Nimon, Time Monster and Underworld. Well, two out of three ain't bad...), and there's a lot of eye-opening stuff on that. And the Leisure Hive commentary, which really does lay open some of the real tensions there must have been between cast, crew etc at the start of the JNT era (even more so than the Williams era!), even if all concerned are very polite and British about it 30 years later. Hey, at least she can laugh at it all at this remove; she sounds genuinely fond of hard-to-live-with old Tom at various points.

But yes, he was very ill during S18, wasn't he? Which might constitute mitigating circumstances, even on top of the drinking and Mr Baker's natural eccentricity.

But Maggadin raises a good point. I do actually feel kind of dirty just introducing the Daily Mail to these pages, let alone these particular stories, so maybe we should just draw a veil over the whole thing...

And that was an EPIC 300th post! EPIC!! ;D

[jjpor]

Speaking of drinking, does anyone else think that Ainley!Master looks the worse for wear in my icon??

[lostspook]

Oh, no, I saw the interview with Matthew in the last DWM. I couldn't read it for wanting to cringe with embarrassment at his total lack of awareness. He can't help that, but there.

I think Janet summed him up nicely in her last DWM interview saying "You end up feeling sorry for Matthew, but it's a waste of time because he doesn't see there's anything to feel sorry for." (I paraphrase hugely, not having memorised interviews from a couple of years back).

This month's interview is with Sylvester & I am much more inclined to react with *hugs* and things. (What is he most proud of? 'Ace'. Confession: The TV Movie would have been better without him... although if he comes back he wants that outfit because he thinks he looked fat in his proper one and didn't like the question mark pully. And, *wants to hit people* I mentioned somewhere online the radio Times editorial on Matt Smith: "He's no Sylvester McCoy!" and some silly person showed Sylvester.)

Sorry, was that off-topic? It was still about articles - they went on about the happiness Patrol crazy news thing, too. (Sylvester feels the TV license is a price worth paying to retain a piece of civilisation and stop Rupert Murdoch getting any richer. :lol:)

And there's only so much you can say about Matthew Waterhouse and his amazing lack of insight, after all.

[primsong]

there's only so much you can say about Matthew Waterhouse and his amazing lack of insight, after all.

I quite concur - I've been kind of vaguely scanning/lurking along on this whole conversation because I really have that little interest in Mr. Waterhouse, I'm afraid... but you suddenly swerved off into Sylv and I'm all perked up and ready to go again. I love listening to Sylvester, even when he's just rambling along, and his thought processes are always fun. Sounds like an interview I'd be much more inclined to take the time to read.

[lostspook]

Oh, okay then... you forced me! :lol:

On the TV Movie:
They should never have had me in it. Or I should have been in all of it! heh! No, I should not have been in any of it, because it made it too confusing, I think, to a new audience. What it should have done is: Paul McGann, story, grab that audience, then brought me back later on, if they'd wanted, and explained that part of the show's history. That would have been a better way to do it.

On JNT:
I don't want to knock him, really, because he was the guy who chose me, and I had a great time with him. Years later, I met someone who said they'd asked him who his favourite Doctor was, and he said, "I can't tell you that. But I'll tell you this - I'm a great friend of Sylvester McCoy's!"

On being asked to give Matt Smith advice:
Someone asked me, "What advice would you give to Matt Smith?" My advice was: don't read anything they write about you. It's sound advice. They were saying he didn't look right for the part? He was too weird looking? The weirder you are, the better it is to play the Doctor! Of course, I wasn't at all weird looking-.

On his bad press being the actor who 'killed' Doctor Who:
People always come up and, very kindly, tell you the negative things people have said. You think, yes, that's very nice, but I don't want to know... The bad stuff hurts.... But I got over it. It's the negativity I've got to endure. I know that people have their favourites, and I've been told sometimes that I have become favourite at certain times.

on the Doctor (all of him)
The Doctor is an eccentric. Look at Matt Smith - he looks eccentric, he is eccentric, and he's brilliant. Tom Baker - I love him to death, but the man is mad. So was Jon Pertwee. Colin is a wonderful, eccentric chap. I've never played a normal person...

The Doctor is by his very nature, anti-establishment. The little man against the evils of the universe. He always has been.

And an, aw story to finish:
...there was a group of children all coming up to chat to me and get autographs. Suddenly, one little girl, I looked at her, and she was terrified. Something behind me had frightened her. She was shaking. Real, utter terror. I looked round, and it was a Dalek!

I stood up and said, "Don't worry, I'm the Doctor, you're safe with me." I didn't do it for comedic effect. I did it for that little girl. I think it was the best piece of acting I've ever done. I wanted to save that little girl from her terror. But I think it's brilliant that the Daleks are still terrifying.

He says, he ought to be depressed, but he's surprisingly happy. ;D

There was stuff about Murdoch and Thatcher, the 1960s, trying to be a priest (like Tom Baker), but I liked the frightened little girl story best.

[jjpor]

Aug 21, 2010 11:41:18 GMT lostspook said:

And there's only so much you can say about Matthew Waterhouse and his amazing lack of insight, after all.

True. Very true.

(Sylvester feels the TV license is a price worth paying to retain a piece of civilisation and stop Rupert Murdoch getting any richer. :lol:)

I'm with Sylv on that! Yeah.

Aw, but that's lovely stuff, especially the story about the little girl. Much nicer than ex-Adric's burblings and the Mail criticising Karen Gillan's hair... Thanks for posting it, and it also makes me think I should take steps to get DWM more regularly (as opposed to once in a blue moon when I happen to see it in the WH Smith's near my work, which is my current operating mode). And now I want to randomly bump into Sylvester McCoy somewhere so I can tell him how fantastic I think he is, not for fanboy purposes, just because I think he deserves it. And hopefully he won't think I'm a scary person or anything... ;D

[librarylover]

I agree that the story of McCoy protecting the little girl who was scared of the Dalek was priceless. One of the things that impresses me most about the actors who have played the Doctor is the sense of responsibility that they have all seemed to feel toward the young fans of the show. Even crazy old Tom tried to watch his behavior around the kids who flocked to him when he was out in public.

[lostspook]

Yes, since doing Media Studies a scary amount of years ago, I am rather obsesively in favour of the license fee and the Beeb, but people have their own reasons for objecting, I know.

And, Library Lover, I agree. And I don't think it's 'even' Tom - it always sounds like something he took incredibly seriously when he started in the role. Not of course, that there are lots of other examples with other Doctors - William Hartnell, just to begin with, adored having a role that meant he got to be treated like that by children, after years of army sergeants and so on. I remember reading in DWM once that he got fanmail from a 5 year old girl who wanted to marry him when she grew up! More awws. Lovely to hear Sylv being the Doctor in rl. And, of course, Peter just chases down thieves and makes citizen's arrests. (Loved his account of that - he'd been playing a policeman and so it just seemed the natural thing to do... :Lol:)

JJ, DWM is *everywhere* these days - they even have it in Tescos and railway stations, which you'd never have found a few years back, so you should be able to spot it in other locations, unless the NW is not as forward thinking in this regard as the NE. :lol: Tescos! Isn't that incredible? I mean, I had to subscribe, because I'd never seen it in any shop ever but this one newsagent when I was on my hols, back in the 90s. It's mind-boggling.