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Post by IMForeman on Jan 11, 2009 2:58:54 GMT
Just watched this today. It's the first story I've seen in ages that I've managed to watch all of in one go. It's also the best story I've seen in a long time and the last episode of the classic series I'll ever see (not counting re-watches). Which made it very bittersweet.
Some short thoughts, from what I can remember.
-Ace! Yay!
-Could they not find any real cats that would hiss on command? Puppet cat looks a bit dodgy.
-It's interesting to find out some more stuff about Ace's home life. I don't know what the police "let her off with a warning" for, but I bet it involved explosives.
-People who think the new series introduced doing domestic should watch this. I would have preferred a bit more of that to people in cheetah suits faffing about in a quarry, to be honest. But I really do think that if it hadn't been canceled it would eventually be very similar to what we have now.
-"I thought you'd died. Or gone to Birmingham." Haha.
-I have to admit, those cheetah people kind of scared me at first. They look just as dodgy as puppet cat, if not more, but that's part of why they're creepy looking.
-I know Lisa Bowerman played Benny Summerfield along with a few other people in the audios but I never realized she was on the show. *facepalm* Well, that explains how she got the part.
-Hey, it's the Master. That would have been a cool surprise ending if I hadn't known about it before. Speaking of, Anthony Ainley was really good in this. I'd heard before that JNT encouraged the OTT-ness and I guess this is proof.
-The whole message about violence isn't exactly subtle, but it's not overly preachy.
-"IF WE FIGHT LIKE ANIMALS, WE'LL DIE LIKE ANIMALS!" *snicker* Oh, Sylvester.
-I love the whole bit where Ace thinks the Doctor's dead and she just quietly puts on his hat and umbrella.
-"There are worlds out there where the sky is burning, where the sea's asleep and the rivers dream, people made of smoke and cities made of song. Somewhere there's danger, somewhere there's injustice and somewhere else the tea is getting cold. Come on, Ace, we've got work to do." Aww. I'd heard about that line before, several times, and didn't know if it would have much impact if I already pretty much knew it, but I did. I felt surprisingly emotional by the end.
It's a shame it got canceled right when it was getting good (Season 26 is awesome), but better that we have this to remember it by than to have it end when practically no one was left with fond memories of it. Well, there's still the TV movie but we won't talk about that.
There's a bunch of other stuff on the DVD I still need to check out.
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Post by clocketpatch on Jan 11, 2009 3:11:32 GMT
I'm very much looking forward to getting a Seven DVD some time soon; problem is that I haven't figured out which one yet, though I'm leaning toward the last three episodes. I've seen a few of the Survival extras on youtube. Sylv is such a clown. It's awesome. -- It might be a good thing that the show was canceled at this point on another reason: Seven is fun because, well, Seven and Ace yes? yes? But from what I've read Ace was going to be shipped out in the next season had it aired and in her place we would have got... Bernice, I guess, and some other girl. The script summaries on Wiki are slightly dodgy. I'm not sure I buy this whole "Ace as a Timelady" thing. and, if things hadn't happened as they did we wouldn't have the audios and the lovely Seven-Ace-Hex drama which makes me squee.
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Post by IMForeman on Jan 11, 2009 3:23:48 GMT
Ah yes, the infamous Cartmel Masterplan. is right. I guess I need to get the audios now. Which ones would you recommend?
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Post by clocketpatch on Jan 11, 2009 3:30:00 GMT
er, ah, I'm actually a bit sketchy on the Seven line. I liked 'Red' but that's a Mel story. The one I heard with Ace and Hex was called 'No Man's Land' and it wasn't bad. Hex is a cutie. I've also heard something of the Scrouge (?? can't remember the title) but that had Bernice and Ace together for some reason. Not bad though... not bad at all..
My goal at the moment is to listen to the entire Eight-Charlie arc, because it's pretty wicked. Zagreus is totally the most crack-tastic thing ever, but it's win (and it has Seven in it, albeit in a minor role that isn't exactly Seven...) but yes...
Zagreus sits inside your head Zagreus lives among the dead Zagreus something... something... eats bread?
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Post by magnusgreel on Jan 11, 2009 3:53:32 GMT
I love all the wandering around Perivale. The fantastic stuff in Who really needs to be balanced and grounded by the everyday to make it matter and make it "real".
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Post by IMForeman on Jan 11, 2009 4:11:53 GMT
er, ah, I'm actually a bit sketchy on the Seven line. I liked 'Red' but that's a Mel story. The one I heard with Ace and Hex was called 'No Man's Land' and it wasn't bad. Hex is a cutie. I've also heard something of the Scrouge (?? can't remember the title) but that had Bernice and Ace together for some reason. Not bad though... not bad at all.. My goal at the moment is to listen to the entire Eight-Charlie arc, because it's pretty wicked. Zagreus is totally the most crack-tastic thing ever, but it's win (and it has Seven in it, albeit in a minor role that isn't exactly Seven...) but yes... Zagreus sits inside your head Zagreus lives among the dead Zagreus something... something... eats bread? From what I've heard of Hex, I'm intrigued but just as well because I also want to listen to more Eight ones. Oh man, Zagreus is insane.
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Post by clocketpatch on Jan 11, 2009 4:45:50 GMT
I want Zagreus adapted for TV. I want it for one of the specials. I have no idea how they'd manage all of the set-up, or how they'd get around the whole 'it's set on Gallifrey' thing, but OH! Wouldn't it be sweet? and I can see Zagreus being used as a way to get the Time Lords back. This will probably never happen. But I can still dream.
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Post by jjpor on Jan 12, 2009 0:09:22 GMT
I've listened to Zagreus, and it is very, very strange but also kind of magnificent, so it would get my vote if they wanted to adapt another of the spinoffs into an episode. I'd say they should do an adaptation of the NA novel "The Dying Days" for NuWho, but the Aliens of London/World War Three in Season One practically was, only not as funny or clever, and without the Brig and the Ice Warriors... Or the absolutely astonishing bit where Eight builds a balloon...
Survival is one of my favourites; I suppose it goes with the territory, being a card-carrying Seven fan, but yeah; Ainley is great, Sylv is great, Ace is, well, Ace. The bit where the Master is wandering around Perivale with Midge being evil so-and-sos is really good; it could have done with being a four-parter so that the resolution wasn't quite as rushed. It has been said that it is a template for NuWho, but I think the difference is that, as Magnus says, the domestic stuff is used to ground the far out elements; it never gives the impression that the domestic stuff is more important than the story, which RTD arguably sometimes has. The bit where Ace puts on the Doctor's hat is, indeed, touching and "IF WE FIGHT LIKE ANIMALS, WE'LL DIE LIKE ANIMALS!!!" doesn't need any further comments from me...
And then there's the ending. I'm a big, soppy old geek, I know, but I can't watch it now without getting...well, something caught in my eye...yes, that's it... Seriously, it's a bad thing that oldschool Who got axed, but the magnificent run of stories in Season 25-26 and *that ending* were probably the best way it could have ended if it had to end. As clocket says, some of the ideas for Season 27 sound downright dodgy, and imagine if it had been axed as originally planned in the middle of Baker, C's tenure; I think there would have been a revival eventually because, well, it's Doctor Who, but it would have been sad not to have Seven and his, well, shall we say mercurial charms.
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Post by magnusgreel on Jan 12, 2009 0:31:05 GMT
I'd rather have the good novels stand as novels, and if they were to film them, they should do it with the appropriate Doctor. If that isn't feasible, they shouldn't do it. I value DW as a long, unfolding story, not as a TV show where you can juggle all the elements around, changing Doctors around, changing the Doctor that a story happened to, because it's just TV.
Paul McGann though, is available, or available to be available, meaning he's breathing. I'd love a few of his to be filmed, with him. The "Missing Adventures" Show, how about that? McGann's age when he regenerated probably has not been established well, but then I wouldn't know.
I hear Dying Days is excellent. Make a film with McGann. Of course that took place right at the start of Eight...
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Post by jjpor on Jan 12, 2009 23:37:40 GMT
I hear Dying Days is excellent. Make a film with McGann. Of course that took place right at the start of Eight... It's great - I know I keep talking it up every time the subject of the NAs comes up, running the risk of your being disappointed if you ever do catch up with it, but yes, it gets my vote. One moment in the story that sticks with me is when the rest of the world realises that the invading aliens are only after Britain, and quickly make their peace with them! And the thing with the balloon... Oh, and the coronation scene ("who isss thisss Jessusss Chrissst??!!"} So, yes, if someone wanted to make a spinoff starring McGann, I'd be all for it. Just remembered another bit of Survival I kind of like; Seven with the two shopkeepers. I should dislike JNT's relentless stunt casting of comedians and light entertainment stars, but I find that scene, with its slightly surreal comedic tone, somewhat amusing. The poor cat, though.
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Post by IMForeman on Jan 13, 2009 6:01:46 GMT
I'd rather have the good novels stand as novels, and if they were to film them, they should do it with the appropriate Doctor. If that isn't feasible, they shouldn't do it. I personally thought the Human Nature two-parter of S3 was really good. Although the book was better. But that worked because the concept was clever and the rest of it could be changed fairly fluidly. In general, they should probably stick to their own ideas. I see The Dying Days is an e-book on the BBC website, I might read it when I get the chance. Just remembered another bit of Survival I kind of like; Seven with the two shopkeepers. I should dislike JNT's relentless stunt casting of comedians and light entertainment stars, but I find that scene, with its slightly surreal comedic tone, somewhat amusing. The poor cat, though. I didn't realize that was stunt casting when I watched it and found myself liking the scene. Just one question: what kind of cat likes cheese? And they can't even get dead cats to not look totally fake. Which is fair, I guess something realistic would be distasteful. I finished watching the DVD. One of the strangest yet oddly fascinating features is this. It's all very educational and has the Doctor asking the fictional contestants questions like "what shape is the earth?" and "what makes day and night?" There's also one bit where K-9 is in a planetarium trying to figure out colors of stars by finding Smarties on the floor (don't ask) and an instrumental version of the K-9 & Company theme song starts playing. I cracked up laughing at that point.
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Post by clocketpatch on Jan 13, 2009 6:17:19 GMT
Just one question: what kind of cat likes cheese? All three of my kitties LOVE cheese. It's the only treat that all three of them agree on (well, that and tuna, but that makes one of them upchuck so we don't go there anymore). For the record, my childhood hamsters also loved cheese. I finished watching the DVD. One of the strangest yet oddly fascinating features is this. It's all very educational and has the Doctor asking the fictional contestants questions like "what shape is the earth?" and "what makes day and night?" There's also one bit where K-9 is in a planetarium trying to figure out colors of stars by finding Smarties on the floor (don't ask) and an instrumental version of the K-9 & Company theme song starts playing. I cracked up laughing at that point. Aw, why didn't you post this yesterday? Now I wish I'd ordered Survivor instead of Fenric... (it would have been cheaper too...) Oh well. Fenric is also verily awesome. At least, I like it... which, if the reviews on Amazon are anything to go by, isn't actually that common. *makes odd face at the people on Amazon who don't like Fenric* NEVIL! NEVIL FROM THE DAWN OF TIME!!!
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Post by IMForeman on Jan 13, 2009 6:40:32 GMT
All three of my kitties LOVE cheese. It's the only treat that all three of them agree on (well, that and tuna, but that makes one of them upchuck so we don't go there anymore). For the record, my childhood hamsters also loved cheese. Haha, right after I posted that, I realized someone was going to come and prove me wrong. Maybe I just have picky cats. It's my dog's favorite food, though, but then dogs are different. Aw, why didn't you post this yesterday? Now I wish I'd ordered Survivor instead of Fenric... (it would have been cheaper too...) Oh well. Fenric is also verily awesome. At least, I like it... which, if the reviews on Amazon are anything to go by, isn't actually that common. *makes odd face at the people on Amazon who don't like Fenric* NEVIL! NEVIL FROM THE DAWN OF TIME!!! Well, I didn't watch it until today, sorry. But I don't think it was worth it just for that small bit, lolsy as it was, although there's some other interesting stuff on the DVD. I for one prefer Fenric to Survival and I don't know what the deal is with the silly people on Amazon. Also, the Fenric DVD includes the movie-length version if you haven't seen it already.
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Post by jjpor on Jan 13, 2009 22:23:26 GMT
I didn't realize that was stunt casting when I watched it and found myself liking the scene. Just one question: what kind of cat likes cheese? And they can't even get dead cats to not look totally fake. Which is fair, I guess something realistic would be distasteful. Well, yes. As for the duo of slightly camp shopkeepers (I keep boring people by reciting the British TV careers of Who gueststars - don't hold it against me), Gareth Hale and Norman Pace were very, very famous, or more likely notorious, British TV comedians of the day, never out of the tabloids for the controversies they created with their frankly rather off-colour humour. They were best known for a sketch in which something horrible happened to a (fake) cat - which may very well be why JNT shoehorned them into this particular episode. Still, in that scene I rather like them. My cat will eat anything she can keep down and, quite often, anything she can't as well... Ah, Search Out Science; the memories... I actually saw this in school as part of a science lesson, and was kind of thrilled by it. For a couple of years after Who ended, Sylv and Sophie continued to show up, in and out of character, on various BBC children's telly shows (I think the Beeb was kind of in denial at the time that they had actually cancelled the show). Myself, a mere nipper at the time, I was still labouring under the misapprehension that it was coming back eventually, and waited in vain for at least a couple of years; anyway, any time I saw something like this, it was a little vicarious thrill for me (bear in mind, I was like eleven or twelve at the time). There was a children's educational programme called Corners that Sophie co-presented for a while and which I used to watch religiously just because it was, well, Sophie. Ah, happy days... As for Fenric - you have Russian commandos, 1940s IT, vampires, nutty naval officers, hints of Nazism, Norse mythology, Nicholas Parsons, Seven being all dark and mysterious and Seveny, and one of the best ever Ace stories - all taking place in WW2!! Anybody who can't find something to love there...well, that person I do not understand... ;D Nicholas Parsons, the vicar in Fenric, was another stunt-casting choice; he was best known as a gameshow host/sort of miscellaneous celebrity at the time, but I think he was magnificent. Ghost Light and Remembrance of the Daleks are my favourite Seven stories, for purely sentimental reasons, but objectively Fenric is probably the best.
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