evelyn
UNIT Red Shirt
Posts: 91
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Post by evelyn on Jan 9, 2009 23:33:16 GMT
Does anyone else think it's about time for some localized conflict that doesn't involve jeapordizing...well...everything?
Personally, I'm pretty tired of anything larger than a city being at risk. Actually - it wouldn't be so irksome if it weren't the same planet (Earth) being placed on the line over and over.
Can't someone just get injured and trapped in a hole or something? How about some old fashioned political tension on another planet? That's always bizarre and often laughable. Or even some basic tension like someone catching an alien disease and there being some insanely difficult-to-achieve cure.
I don't know about you, but if the "whole world", "entire galaxy", "universe", or...heaven help us... "dimension" is at stake one more time, I just may devise a way to bite my own head off.
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Post by clocketpatch on Jan 9, 2009 23:53:55 GMT
YES!!!!
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Post by jjpor on Jan 10, 2009 0:02:55 GMT
I agree; the big cosmos-shattering crises should be few and far between; the Earth being in danger every other week and the whole of reality at stake every season finale does somewhat lessen the impact of the big stuff. The idea of the "reality bomb" in the last finale should have made the audience gasp; instead it was a case of, if the Daleks are threatening the entire universe - again - must mean it's the end of the season. If you think about some of the best oldschool stories, there wasn't very much at risk at all, by the ambitious standards of the new series, but the little crises, the petty madmen, the individual lives at stake, should be as important to the Doctor as the bigger scale stuff, I think.
If we're talking about things we'd like to see more of, very high on my wishlist is a straight-up historical, like they used to have in One's day; no aliens, no worlds in peril, just the Doctor, you know, travelling in time. It wouldn't kill them to just do one episode - it could be the oddity of the season, like Blink or Midnight.
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Post by primsong on Jan 10, 2009 0:37:36 GMT
I would dearly love some historical episodes as well - neither the Aztecs nor the Romans had the entire universe (or even...gasp! England) at stake and they were excellently fun adventures.
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evelyn
UNIT Red Shirt
Posts: 91
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Post by evelyn on Jan 10, 2009 1:40:26 GMT
Ooh! Wouldn't that be nice? Actually, there are a lot of television show writers that could re-evaluate their perspective. I just think that bringing it down a few notches would hit the audience harder because it makes the conflict something personal that they can associate with. Individuals will usually bring about a stronger emotional response than masses of people - even if the situation is deadly.
That's kind of a scary part of our nature, don't you think? Hmm.
But I agree - a good old exploratory jaunt or historical episode would be fantastic. And maybe the writers would feel inclined to do some research instead of twisting the past so that they can make stuff up. *cough*pompeii*cough*
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Post by magnusgreel on Jan 10, 2009 11:32:25 GMT
I agree completely, evelyn. Thank you. I just saw the s4 finale, the final three, and now I never want to see another Dalek for as long as I live.
I laughed, I applauded.
RTD has been seduced by the capability of actually showing invasions onscreen now, and he's let it slip in his stories. Now it's obvious and forced. We can see him yelling, "Look! LOOK!!!" Executive producers ought not to squee fannishly.
I don't have specific requests for Who, just for RTD never to write again, not without a much more Whoish, SF-oriented, and grounded script editor checking his work, anyway. I've seen over half of s4 and most of s3, all of s2, and the only thing I have more than mixed feelings about is the last 3 of s3. I actively dislike many stories. This may alienate me from some people here, which I HATE the thought of, but it's true.
I just want the SF foundation firmed up, a stop to magic in stories, and the highlights of s1 used as a template, along with an end to recycling of classic Who plot elements. New Who can't be like rap records, using old images and plot devices, the fruit of writers' creativity who are mostly still around, as "found" source material.
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Post by clocketpatch on Jan 10, 2009 18:37:50 GMT
We can see him yelling, "Look! LOOK!!!" Executive producers ought not to squee fannishly. lol. I'm not sure I can criticize RTD on his enduring fanboy love; if it were otherwise would this message board even exist? But I know what you mean; certain types of wish fulfillment are best left to the ficcers. As is all of the tongue wrestling. (personally, I blame CGI for everything; when the effects are cheap and easy they're also easier to misuse... granted, Warriors of the Deep was bad on its own without CGI. So I guess my theory is unfounded... I still stick by it) (If *I* can't stick by me who will???) I actively dislike many stories. This may alienate me from some people here, which I HATE the thought of, but it's true. Now that you've seen more of S4 you can go read those reviews the rest of us wrote when they were airing. I think you'll find your opinions are very cozy with the rest of the group's, or, um, with mine anyway (and I'm the most important person here anyway right??? right? ...cries) Season four was generally quite awesome though, despite having a few episodes which I wish never to see again. Have you seen Midnight and Turn Left? Both were good examples of what RTD can do when he leaves the Daleks at home and writes nice character driven pieces. I hope that when the show comes back he'll be given the role of writing one or two little dramas a season, because he is good at it. it's just when he tries to go SO BIG IT WILL BLOW YOUR MIND that it gets a bit tedious. But yes, a total agreement otherwise, especially on the "less magic more science" front. *rolls eyes* this reminds of a fic I read once called Harry in Hole.... it would totally make a good episode.
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Post by teeceeoh on Jan 10, 2009 21:50:31 GMT
Hmm. Didn't I hear somewhere that the Meddling Monk is supposed to make a reappearance somehow? Or is that just hearsay? It'd be interesting if he was try to change history so that Operation Dynamo, the evacuation of Dunkirk, was a failure. Ultimately this would possibly mean Germany would win. Not the most original of scenarios, I know. I only suggest this because I appear to have WWII on the brain. lol
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Post by jjpor on Jan 10, 2009 22:52:04 GMT
Hmm. Didn't I hear somewhere that the Meddling Monk is supposed to make a reappearance somehow? Or is that just hearsay? It'd be interesting if he was try to change history so that Operation Dynamo, the evacuation of Dunkirk, was a failure. Ultimately this would possibly mean Germany would win. Not the most original of scenarios, I know. I only suggest this because I appear to have WWII on the brain. lol The Monk? Really? ;D That'd be great, actually; I like a bit of alternate-history stuff as much as the next person (used to post on a newsgroup called soc.history.what-if in which people used to write about just these sort of scenarios), and I too have something of a WW2 fixation; I think it's a British thing; that and the 1966 World Cup were the last significant things this country did! ;D If we can't have a straight-up historical, an alternative historical would be the next best thing. A noteworthy thing, actually, is the lack of Nazis in Doctor Who, considering its time travel aspect. Most science fiction shows manage to sneak in at least one Nazis-as-baddies episode, even when it makes no sense; yes, I'm thinking of "Patterns of Force", the Star Trek episode where Kirk and Spock fight Nazis on some alien planet (mainly as an excuse for Shatner and Nimoy to get dressed up in snappy German uniforms it seems; those German helmets, it turns out, are just the thing for concealing one's Vulcan ears). Sure, Who has metaphorical Nazis in the form of the Daleks, and more specifically in the form of Davros, Nyder et al in Genesis. All in all, I think it's rather a good thing that Who has always been too classy to trivialise the evil of the Third Reich for the sake of hissable cartoon baddies - the closest they came was Evil!Brig and crew in Inferno (although Uncle Terry did not resist the temptation in some of the novels he wrote for the NAs and after). Magnus, I am slightly less hard on NuWho, but only because I think my standards are lower than yours. ;D My rule of thumb is: Season One, pretty good; seems better now than it did at the time because we now have the other three seasons to compare it to, LOL. Season Two...is dead to me; only Love and Monsters came even close to being what I consider a good story, and that was flawed (I really don't rate Fireplace Girl as highly as most people seem to). Season Three was a game of two halves; first half was none too good, second half redeemed itself somewhat. I agree with what you say about too much magic, not enough science, but for me we had a run of six pretty good episodes in Human Nature/Family of Blood, Blink, Utopia and the finale. Fell down for me a bit in the deus ex machina resolution of the latter. Season Four the same; a slow start, in my opinion (it seems I and Evelyn and possibly Magnus are the only people in the world who really didn't like the Pompeii story), picked up around the Agatha Christie episode and then had a pretty decent run in until RTD managed to blow away all of my goodwill with the truly awful resolution of the finale. All of the above is just my personal opinion, of course; your mileage, as they say, may vary.
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Post by primsong on Jan 14, 2009 18:54:23 GMT
I loved Harry in a Hole! It was brilliant and creepy at the same time. Who wrote that one - it wasn't you, was it? I'll have to go look it up again.
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Post by magnusgreel on Jan 14, 2009 21:06:53 GMT
I'll go further and say that I'd like to see an occasional episode where nothing threatening happens at all. I'd like to see them bumming around an alien planet running into alien oddities, cultural, biological, just exploring.
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Post by jjpor on Jan 14, 2009 22:40:53 GMT
I'll go further and say that I'd like to see an occasional episode where nothing threatening happens at all. I'd like to see them bumming around an alien planet running into alien oddities, cultural, biological, just exploring. That'd be very interesting, actually, and would provide a good use for the modern day special effects beyond the inevitable flying armadas of Daleks that we seem to get. Sort of similar in idea to some of the early One stories, I suppose. There have been some interesting examples of worldbuilding in NuWho, to be fair, but they are usually quickly brushed aside to make room for the Spectacle! and the Guest Stars!
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Post by magnusgreel on Jan 15, 2009 0:22:52 GMT
How 'bout an unimaginably vast army of Daleks appears first thing, then Doctor reverses their polarity with a coat hanger with some serpentina on it, Daleks go poof, and within thirty seconds they're over and Doctor and his plus one go walking down an alien street striking up crazy conversations for an hour?
Yes, I want the effects to be devoted to seeing the wonders of the Universe, not with endless invasions. I want to spend actual time in those places like at the start of New Earth. People are too plot-dependant.
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Post by clocketpatch on Jan 15, 2009 2:09:18 GMT
I loved Harry in a Hole! It was brilliant and creepy at the same time. Who wrote that one - it wasn't you, was it? I'll have to go look it up again. www.whofic.com/viewstory.php?sid=23768I didn't write it; vvj5 has that honor. I did rec it on Calufrax though, because it's AWESOME! To get back to the conversation at hand, I for one am also all for the idea of the Doctor and co. wandering about on an alien world exploring the local fauna and flora, the cultural quirks and quibbles - and then perhaps being thrown in jail for violating some odd taboo (brown pinstripes are against the law because... um, they clash terriby with everything when your species sees ultra-violet light waves). And, um, while in jail they learn about some scheme or another, and break free, and thwart it, and then the Doctor and co. wander about some more discussing the scenery before eventually boarding the TARDIS and flying off to their next adventure. Yes? Yes?
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Post by magnusgreel on Jan 15, 2009 5:07:38 GMT
I like it.
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Post by teeceeoh on Jan 15, 2009 21:46:32 GMT
Me too, though I guess it's not likely to happen perhaps outside of fan fiction. Most people wouldn't be happy unless the episode has the Earth/galaxy/universe/whatever in peril at some point.
Talking of special effects, why can't they go back to time to watch our sun being formed, and the gradual birth of the solar system? Or a solar system. I'd love to see a reconstruction of how the gas giants might have formed, especially Saturn and its rings. What about the Asteroid Belt?
Another thing I'd like to see would be Who's take on the whole colonisation of other worlds - Man's first tentative steps outside of his own solar system.
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Post by jjpor on Jan 15, 2009 22:41:52 GMT
The more I think about it, the more I like the idea - adventures in time and space don't have to be about universal perils. A pure historical or the Doctor just deciding to climb some impossibly high mountain on some weird alien planet because he's always wanted to see the ancient rock carvings at the summit, and using the TARDIS would be cheating. Somehow I think we're about as likely to get an episode like this in Season 5 as we are to get the Doctor telling his companion(s) that he couldn't care less about their families back on Earth, so cool it with all the domestic talk. ;D
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Post by clocketpatch on Jan 16, 2009 2:15:34 GMT
Talking of special effects, why can't they go back to time to watch our sun being formed, and the gradual birth of the solar system? Or a solar system. I'd love to see a reconstruction of how the gas giants might have formed, especially Saturn and its rings. What about the Asteroid Belt? Didn't Ten take Donna to see the formation of the Earth at some point? That, said, I'm all for him taking other companions to see the formation of stars and planets and solar systems; TARDIS travel should be about seeing the wonders of the cosmos, not just the big shoot-ups of the cosmos (though let's not lie, if there were no shoot-ups, ever, it would be a pretty boring show) Another thing I'd like to see would be Who's take on the whole colonization of other worlds - Man's first tentative steps outside of his own solar system. You need to watch your Three. ;D Colony in Space, The Mutants, Frontier in Space (off the top of my head...) Three liked visiting recent colonies for some reason... actually, I think the Time Lords randomly sent him to those colonies to fight off the Master, but still... Oh! Speaking of which! Frontier in Space and Planet of the Daleks are coming out this year in a boxset AND EPISODE THREE OF POTF HAS BEEN COLORIZED!!! *faints with happy* oh, and a little story called the Deadly Assassin is also coming out. I said all of this in the c-box, but I thought I'd share the squee elsewhere.
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Post by teeceeoh on Jan 16, 2009 18:43:07 GMT
Gah, silly me. lol Seems I must do a little bit more research before I post...
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Post by jjpor on Jan 17, 2009 3:23:08 GMT
(though let's not lie, if there were no shoot-ups, ever, it would be a pretty boring show) The way I see it, we're allowed one "weird episode" per season, which are often also the best episodes of NuWho (i.e. Love and Monsters, Blink, Midnight/Turn Left) - now these have traditionally been the "doctor lite" episodes shot when the principal actors have been otherwise engaged, but I think we could use that "weird slot" to accomodate our straight historical/Doctor explores episode. Personally, I'd like to strike a balance between Sensawunda and action - e.g. the Doctor is enjoying a nice spring morning in Constantinople in the year 1204 - he notices some of the locals seem a bit tense, but he's busy enjoying the sights. Naturally, he bluffs his way up onto the city walls 'cause he's the Doctor...only to see the massed vessels of the Venetian fleet surging across the Golden Horn, packed to the gunwales with the murderous hordes of the Fourth Crusade...*gulp* - roll opening titles! Frontier in Space?! Deadly Assassin?! I'll see your squee and raise you a double-squee - how many months do I have to save my pennies/plan that bank job in order to buy these must-have consumer goods??
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