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Post by clocketpatch on Sept 10, 2008 2:44:47 GMT
When I get the spare time I am so going to write a commentary for this, because it deserves it. Oh dear.
Oh dear...
XD XD XD
I somehow got both my room mates (including the one who hates SF) to watch this with me, and we were just in tears from laughter the whole way through.
Okay, brief sum-up... Undersea Base (though it's not made clear it's underwater and room mate B was convinced everyone was in outer space until mid-way through the last episode) ... and the crew of this base are dressed in what Janet Fielding on the commentary described as 'cat-suits and copious eye-makeup' she kept going on about the catsuits...
AND WITH GOOD REASON!
and if they were too tight, the outfit the Doc... known foundly as The Fainty Albino in my house (poor Doc gets no respect here) anyway, the outfit he ended up in was far too loose and bagged out weirdly around the bum.
And had a fairly useless air-tube that kept flopping eveywhere
...and a silly underwater helmet that had a GAPING HOLE in the front. It looked like a fish bowl.
Oh... did I mention that the catsuits had random zippered pockets on their backs for some reason none of us could decipher??? Seriously... WTh???
Then there was the Myrka... I can't even describe the Myrka, some things one must experience for themselves. But... wow... and the doors made of mattress foam... that fall on Tegan... and Tegan and Five together can't lift the foam...
*wipes away tears*
And the seabase's doctor (who looks like some kind of Space Mimi from the Drew Carry show) kung-fu-ing the Myrka after doing some weird interpretive dance move...
Oh, and Turlough and Catsuit man (thus named because WOW the costumes were bad, but his was like... O.o) locked into a room with bubblewrap beds...
And Tegan's BRIGHT BRIGHT dress, which is surely the bastard child of Six's coat, and how she keeps trying to sneak around the BRIGHT WHITE seabase in it.
The seabase set which repeatedly moves when the actors bump into the walls...
Oh! And Turlough trying to convince Tegan the Doctor is dead when he clearly isn't.
um.... yeah... that's some of the fun. what the plot was I have no idea, and, as room mate A pointed out "if we can't figure out the plot less than a week after watching those Ruffles episodes which came before it, how the hell were people supposed to figure it out with a ten year gap between???"
I have no answer... only... if you watch this one, don't watch it for the plot... or the acting... or the effects.... watch it for the strange fasination of seeing something just completely fail at everything, and still keep on going... and watch it for the very unintentional humour.... and watch it with a friend.... and possisbly some wine... man oh man
good times
oh... and the sexy wet wounded puppydog scene, with sexy wet wounded puppyday Fivey... so much pretty.... *pets*
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Post by magnusgreel on Sept 10, 2008 15:40:07 GMT
That business of luring enemies into a storeroom and switching on some device to incapacitate them was filched from a Troughton.
I ignore the flaws in sets if I can. I don't expect perfection. I'm just glad they did what they did on a children's show budget.
The Myrka I have probably laughed at, partly because it's a glaring example of the BBC policy of inserting a monster for the kiddies to hide behind the sofa from into every DW story, whether it really has anything to do with the plot or not. They don't have to be impressive or scary, they just have to present, I guess. I can imagine some BBC guy with a clipboard, checking off the required elements... yep, monster... checking that one off the list....
I forget that the absurdities are what drew me into Who in the first place. After a few years, I grew to buy it all and take it all fairly seriously, suspending disbelief really well, with that sense of absurdity as a sort of unconscious undercurrent. Keep watching cp, and you may reach that stage.
Real life has an undercurrent of absurdity, so somehow that makes DW more realistic than other programs, to me. A plot that makes perfect sense just isn't trying hard enough to capture reality as it is.
I can never remember what I think of this story. By the way, Ingrid Pitt who played the doctor I think, was also the queen in Time Monster, and submitted a script she co-wrote for a DW story once. She was big in Hammer films.
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Post by clocketpatch on Sept 10, 2008 16:15:27 GMT
Haha, I knew I loved the Time Monster for a reason.
Seriosly though, I did love this episode, and I've got to give them credit for filming it in under five days if the commentary is right (when they were supposed to have two weeks O.o)
But... wow. LOL It is fantastic though. I'm pretty forgiving of sets too, but there's no getting around it when the sets MOVE every times someone bumps into them. XD
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Post by jjpor on Sept 10, 2008 20:31:38 GMT
Personally, production values, sets, costumes, effects, are not deal-breakers as far as I'm concerned - I'm willing to suspend disbelief if there's a good story, script etc. And, yeah...well.... this is one of those Five stories that made me (unfairly, probably), put him at the bottom of my list when I first joined the group.
Magnus is dead right about the Myrka - it's exactly like the Magma Beast in Caves - the token man-in-a-suit monster. LOL.
Gotta love the earnest, clunky, subtle-as-a-hammer-to-the-forehead Cold War allegory going on here too - how very 80s.
I actually saw this before I ever saw the Pertwee Silurians/Sea Devils episodes, and I think even at the time I realised there was some backstory I was missing out on. Love the weirdo samurai helmets the Sea Devils sport here, though.
And, yeah, Ingrid Pitt, who was in more dodgy 60s-70s vampire flicks than you can shake a stick at, and I think I've probably seen most of them as well.
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Post by magnusgreel on Sept 11, 2008 3:22:33 GMT
Actually I liked the Cold War content, where everyone was still stuck in it one century later... this was before Gorbachev, and my reaction was, damn, I'll bet that's right. Fortunately, the Soviets were never named. The opposition could be someone else taking the Soviets' place in the same Cold War standoff.
Doctor Who future history was filled with depressing events that would discourage the hell out of anyone who has to live in them... the Doctor can clear off anytime he likes though, so who cares? The Dr will often relate horrific future history casually, I like that. I love the sense that he's above it all. I like that perspective.
This might be the first story where the Dr has really short hair, that annoyed me. The Silurians referred to their "Sea Devil brothers" when that was just some nickname the locals used in the Pertwee story. An argument should have broken out over this racial slur...! But then, "Silurians" was also a human term, and a wrong one as Three pointed out. Anyone remember what they called themselves, if anything? Anyway, their head-guns seemed to misfire in this story, lighting up every time they spoke.
I always like contemplating the poor extras playing Sea Devils, having to walk around with their real faces covered with rubber, where the Sea Devils' necks were.
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Post by clocketpatch on Sept 11, 2008 3:53:17 GMT
According to the commentary he had it cut for All Creatures Great and Small a few days before.
... I actually liked the ideas behind this story, and it probably could have been better if they'd had more time to work on it. As is though, it's pretty rubbish. The commentary is great though. Pete and Fielding turn the entire thing into a episode of MST 3000. They're just too darn gleeful at pointing out al of the mistakes.
The best bit is Fielding ranting about how she fell into the Myrka and got covered in green paint. So, so funny...
XDD
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Post by jjpor on Sept 11, 2008 19:44:07 GMT
But then, "Silurians" was also a human term, and a wrong one as Three pointed out. Anyone remember what they called themselves, if anything? I don't know about onscreen, but in the New Adventures novels, I seem to remember the term "Earth Reptiles" being used as a kind of "politically correct" epithet for them; in the novels continuity, they eventually all emerged from their stasis and lived on Earth alongside the humans, and by the 26th Century were fighting alongside the humans and Draconians in the Dalek Wars. Which maybe goes against the "humans are the real monsters" ethos of the TV Silurians/Sea Devils stories... One thing that has always stayed with me from this story since I first saw it, is the ending; all of the dead "Earth Reptiles" lying around, and the Doctor looking mightily heartbroken about the whole thing. "There should have been another way." Good stuff. I like Five's sensitivity and the way Davison plays it; the sense that he's really not cut out for the bad stuff the universe (and Eric Saward) keeps throwing at him, which only makes his heroic actions all the more impressive, of course. The commentary is great though. Pete and Fielding turn the entire thing into a episode of MST 3000. They're just too darn gleeful at pointing out al of the mistakes. Yes, those two give good commentary, LOL, even if they do put their own stories down a bit. |
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Post by magnusgreel on Sept 12, 2008 17:13:33 GMT
I knew about the NA novel, first one I ever bought... Silurian on a dinosaur on the cover. Still haven't heard it. Doesn't having Silurians in the future destroy continuity? The NAs had a mission statement right at the beginning, continuity or die, basically...
Besides, you're right, our species would never just let them live amongst us, not in the DW universe anyway... this isn't Star Trek.
Maybe the Daleks killed the future Silurians off, very selectively. still, up until then, I can't see the Pertwee-era Earth empire being nice to a bunch of reptiles who claimed their home planet.
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Post by jjpor on Sept 12, 2008 19:45:35 GMT
I knew about the NA novel, first one I ever bought... Silurian on a dinosaur on the cover. Still haven't heard it. Is that "Blood Heat" ? If so, it's one of the best in the whole range, IMO. Without giving too much away, that particular story actually takes place in an alternative universe, created by one of the Doctor's old enemies deliberately meddling with history. Basically, the TV story The Silurians turned out very, very different. It's very good anyway, if a little downbeat and gritty, but happily it manages to do downbeat and gritty without falling into that "false adult" thing we were talking about a while ago. You're right that the future history of Earth presented in Who is relentlessly grim compared to the utopian ideals of, say, Trek; unfortunately, it also seems very true to me; look at the past few centuries of human history - it doesn't seem likely to me that we're suddenly going to mend our ways in the future. Of course, you, the infamous Magnus Greel, should know this better than most!  I suppose that the only thing you can say about humans in Who is that they always maintain the capacity to do good if they want to, unlike the real monstrosities such as the Daleks. In fact, special cases like the Daleks and Cybermen aside (and they are unnatural obscenities who have deliberately engineered themselves to be twisted and wrong), most alien species in Who are quite well-rounded, by the admittedly not great standards of TV science fiction. The Silurians are a good example, as are the Ice Warriors, the Draconians etc. As for the Silurians and Sea Devils using names invented for them by humans, maybe they're "reclaiming" the words, as oppressed minorities have in real life, using those hurtful racial slurs to rob them of their power to do harm. I like to think so anyway. LOL |
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Post by clocketpatch on Sept 12, 2008 22:20:01 GMT
I think I've heard of this NA also... it's not the one with Ace, and weird stuff happening to Ace, but then not happening because of timeline wibbly wobbly time-wimey stuff is it?
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Post by jjpor on Sept 12, 2008 23:11:36 GMT
I think I've heard of this NA also... it's not the one with Ace, and weird stuff happening to Ace, but then not happening because of timeline wibbly wobbly time-wimey stuff is it? It might well be - it's been a few years since I last read it. IIRC, there was a whole story arc, comprising a few novels, which involved this old enemy of the Doctor's (and it isn't any of the usual suspects - it's a real doozy of an old enemy, in fact!) altering history in an effort to win some sort of victory over Our Hero. The arc comprised (I hope I'm not leaving any novels out): Blood Heat - which is a very, very good NA - one of the best. Silurians and the Brig (but not the Brig we know!) and AU shenanigans. The Dimension Riders - which is not so good. It's sort of a second-rate remake of Shada - it reads like an above-average Target novelisation of a quite bad TV episode. The author doesn't take advantage of the novel format, shall we say. The Left-Handed Hummingbird - Another really good one, IMHO, provided you like 1960s Hippy/rock music culture and evil Aztec gods. So, that's a double-yes for me! Seriously, it's good, if slightly strange. I seem to remember that it was mildly controversial when it came out (just as Ben Aaronovitch's Transit was controversial in its day for all the swearing) for its depiction of the Doctor partaking of mind-expanding drugs. No Future - which wraps up the whole arc, and also features UNIT and the Brig and late-70s Punk Rock culture, but is nevertheless not very good. Other than the big reveal of who the baddie was all along, it probably isn't worth your time and effort. YMMV. |
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Post by clocketpatch on Sept 13, 2008 2:29:46 GMT
Heh, I'm sensing a bit of an inspiration for your current fic here? y/y??? If the quality is anything like what you're writing I might just check it out. Maybe.
And I do like my pre-historic MesoAmerican deities... yes...
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Post by jjpor on Sept 13, 2008 3:08:26 GMT
Heh, I'm sensing a bit of an inspiration for your current fic here? y/y??? Possibly...I couldn't possibly comment... The novel is well worth checking out if you can find it, though. I, too, love me my bloodthirsty Mesoamerican cultures. Of course, as a trained expert in the field, you're going to tell me that they weren't really as crazily evil as I imagine in my head... I just like the against-type interpretation that the Conquistadors were actually the good guys... ;D |
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Post by clocketpatch on Sept 13, 2008 3:53:21 GMT
Pshah, I'm NOTHING like an expert. Though... I'll tell you the Maya weren't particularly crazy evil. Though, the Aztecs, dunno, what little I know about them (which is like... very little...) suggests that they weren't very nice, what with the massive human sacrifices and all...
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Post by aquabluejay on Mar 23, 2011 3:52:26 GMT
the Doc... known foundly as The Fainty Albino in my house (poor Doc gets no respect here) Wait, you call Fivey What, around your house?! XD I've gotta hear the story to this. |
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Post by magnusgreel on Mar 23, 2011 14:47:03 GMT
the Doc... known foundly as The Fainty Albino in my house (poor Doc gets no respect here) Wait, you call Fivey What, around your house?! XD I've gotta hear the story to this. I'll hazard a guess that it has something to do with a lot of unconscious spells during Castrovalva, his anti-swarthiness, and general lightweight presence... |
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Post by jjpor on Mar 24, 2011 23:07:59 GMT
Yes, Magnus, he has a certain delicate sort of thing about him, doesn't he? ;D
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Post by clocketpatch on Mar 26, 2011 16:19:04 GMT
the Doc... known foundly as The Fainty Albino in my house (poor Doc gets no respect here) Wait, you call Fivey What, around your house?! XD I've gotta hear the story to this. Well, it was my old room mate who came up with it. He's so pale you see, and he does spend a certain percentage of every episode knocked out/fainted/poisoned/suffering from cosmic angst or what have you. Heh. I call him the fainty albino too when I'm being harsh on him. All the rest of the time he's the on-coming beige.  |
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Post by aquabluejay on Mar 27, 2011 9:02:51 GMT
I swear, half of it... No make that most of it is probably just the fact that he wears so much beige. There's just on color in him! Visually, it makes him quite different from most of the other doctors, particularly the ones near him, like four and six.
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