So, the Doc is Schrodinger's Cat

[merrythemad]

WOW!!!!!!!!
**Where do I start? I don't hear very well so I'm not sure but did that voice sound like Davros to anyone else? Also, was anyone else thinking River was totally about to step out of the Pandorica? How happy would that have made so many? hahaha. All in all I think this was was a really wonderful episode, but I'm a bit gushy right now and to be honest, I tend to react emotionally before intellectually with DW. The giant alliance seems bit far-fetched to me, though I don't think the Dreamlord is involved as many seem to. I admit I will have nightmares forEVER from that cyberman-squid-spider-thing. GAWD! I was literally watching through my fingers (my equivalent of 'from behind the sofa' I reckon) and squeaking!!!

I cannot wait until next week, though I don't think it will make much sense if River kills the Doctor this episode as in her timeline she was already in prison (assuming she only goes to Stormgate once I guess). It also doesn't really make sense if she dies (sorry Lost) but time being rewritten IS a really big theme this series, so anything is possible. Plus one wonders how much of any of this is actually real since reality has been a recurring theme as well.

I don't really think Amy is dead and I'm disappointed, not that she isn't but that it seems SO so SO obvious that she isn't. Though knowing she didn't make out of the episode (which I did because I clicked the BBC website tab when I meant to click the google teb the perils of tabbed browsing I tells ya!) I briefly toyed with the idea of Rory as companion next series and I LIKED it.

And what about Rory, eh? Is he an auton resembling Rory or somehow is he actually PART Rory, and he made cry by the way. How awful that she wouldn't listen and the human part of him (or whatever felt human-bit like the robot in the Churchill one) couldn't really make her he was only just seeing her again after who knows how long?!?! Ack, I cried. Anyway what did you think?**

[librarylover]

CAN IT BE NEXT WEEK NOW PLEASE?

** I really liked this episode, and it may be the best cliffhanger I've ever seen. River continues to get more awesome every time we see her, IMHO. I loved that she impersonated Cleopatra in order to infiltrate the Roman legion. The cyber head attacking Amy was really creepy. Rory as a Roman Legionnaire, who turned out to be an Auton? Priceless. There were so many things I liked I can't list them all here. It is a century until next Saturday. **

[clocketpatch]

I can give no coherent reaction BECAUSE THE SQUEE IS IMPACTING MY ABILITY TO THINK

"I died and then I was a Roman, it's very distracting"

RRRRrroorrrrryyyyyyyyyyyyyy!!!!!!


and "Does it ever bother you Amy that your life doesn't make any sense?"

And the ending! And, and, and, and... AHhhhh!!! I do not know what that is that I have just watched several times. But I do know that it was awesome.

[jjpor]

I am...speechless...

*Seriously, what a cliffhanger! And as many questions as answers! I'd echo LL; why can't I have a TARDIS so I can nip forward to next Saturday and watch Pt 2 right now?!

Ah, Merry, that whole scene with Amy and Auton!Rory - the expression on his face as he shot her!

And probably the best use of a Cyberman in NuWho since they were introduced in S2 - the self-propelled head reminded me a lot of the horror film The Thing, if anybody's seen that. And the skull! Yikes!

And the whole pre-credits sequence was just coolness, apart maybe from the idea of Van Gogh as mystical prophet, because that seemed a bit tasteless really using a real life character's mental health problems in that way. But yeah, Eleven's reaction to being greeted with "Hail Caesar!" ;D

I don't really by the Grand Alliance of Evil either, but I'm suspecting they too might just be figments of Amy's imagination (okay, she has never met most of them, but could the whatever be tapping into the Doctor's memories too somehow?)

No idea on the voice yet - it doesn't really sound like Davros to me. Davros's is more electronic-sounding, isn't it?

But yes - WHEN IS IT NEXT WEEK???!!!*

[Starflower]

I watched this and for a few minutes after I was just staring at the screen blankly like "That's it?"
*Not Moffat's best episode though I must admit I can NOT wait until next week. Rory made the episode amazing. ^_^ River is not getting any better and she never ceses to annoy me. It was rather disapointing at the begining when they read the cliff side and it said "Hello Sweetie." >.>

The cyber-head thing was... creepy. And what's worse is my computer froze up and crashed right after she got behind the wooden door. I had to wait about 20 minutes before I could continue. 0_0

I think this episode needed to be split into two and have more explanation. Too much was cramed into 45 minutes and half the time I was just wondering "what's going on?" and not in the "Ooo! Mystery and suspense" way but just in the "huh?" way.

The ending REALLY needed better music. It was just too cheerful and ruined the mood. Because apparently it is SO wonderful that the TARDIS is exploding, Rory is a robot, Amy is dying, the Doctor is beind locked away in the Pandorica, every enemy ever seen in Doctor Who is joined in an alliance to trap him, the universe, in fact ALL universes, are ending! Yup. Happy stuff. But I LOVE how all sound, even the music, just suddenly stops and then Earth disapears.

So points for Rory, the Doctor, and Amy, Moffat, but I'm no so impressed with the enemies, River, and the plot.

[merrythemad]

*blinks* Wow, Star, usually I agree with you summat but this time I flatly (and hotly my fired-up whovian heart adds). This is the first time ALL Season I think they really did flat out fantastic! Definitely among my top Moffat stories. I watched it again last night with a friend who had yet to see it and I still squeed and cried!

The "Hello Sweetie" as a catchphrase irritates me but WAAAAAAAAAAAAY less than does "Geronimo" and I thought the brief discussion River and Eleven had on the graffiti was PRICELESS (YOU defaced the OLDEST cliff in the universe! YOU wouldn't answer your phone, ha! WIN)

I can see why people who dismiss River out of hand wouldn't like this episode, the Doctor and River seemed more together than I believe they have as yet. He had no doubts as to her capabilities and never once doubted her. Though, those who do patently despise River ought to be happy she IS destroying the whole bloody universe, C'MON RIVER HATERS what more do you want?

I really didn't feel it was at all cluttered and smooshied together (which is something I would have agreed with you on most of the rest of the series, Star) nor did I feel it needed more explaining, after all, they HAVE been setting it up all season and the Doctor didn't know so how were we to?

Something I am curious about I can think of a few moments during this series when Eleven said or did things that seemed DEAD wrong, is that because he is wrong? The few I can list of the top of my head are his quickness to kill the Starwhale (hell Ten wouldn't a dalek when it was the last, why on earth is eleven so quick to kill something obviously not unkind? Another was the whole Sil-SCientist guy talking about kindnapping and biologically human CHILDREN to which Eleven replies "I rather love you" ummmm what??? There is another one ( at least!) but I can't remember it off the top of my head. Do you think these could be clues as opposed to bad writing? ANother idea I had, since these are Amy's memories perhaps that's WHY she did so much I KNOES WHAT TO DO, because she already had done these things or perhaps even seen the Doctor do these things?

Also I sure hope River remembers Amy's spoiler pretty quickly (the one where Amy knows River lived through the Pandorica opening) it is my fervent hope that will give the drive she needs to get her poo together and start escaping (or at least attempting to forge a plan)

OOOOh, and the watch thing, Rory is back I'm SOSOSOSO hoping that we are all right and that it WAS a double Doc and a MASSIVE continuity error, how sad would that be? CP, I have kinda joined you on your ship (and JJ's for that matter) it may have taken all series, but when Eleven looked down those stairs and then said "THe Underhedge" well, he WAS the Doctor, he was THE Doctor, not eleven. I'm sort of half-in-love with him now, just fyi (Not screamy breathless fangirl in love but just WOW) hey, you know what? Bowties ARE cool. And his meeting back up with Rory? Classic, absolute instant classic. And the line about how "Nobody would expect three people to go against 12,000 starships because,well, because we'd be killed instantly and it'd be a short surprise." HE reminds me sooooo much of Four it's wonderful, but he isn't Four, he is HIM and for the first time this series I am EVER so grateful he is. ROck on you guys, and ROLL ON SATURDAY HOLY HELL!

Also, expect three vids from me very shortly, my Rory-vid, my this series vid and my very first, eleven vid. AAAaaand, I feel that strange rumbley-headed way I always feel when a good chunk of story is rolling about so yes, fan fic too. See, I do have an inner-fangirl and sadly this series I didn't slip her a mickey as I didn't think she'd need it, now she's screaming and beating at the walls of her cave, lol.**

and can I just add YESSSSS!!!

[clocketpatch]

Welcome to the squee fest Merry! Bow ties ARE pretty damn awesome!!


Something I've been wondering, because I haven't seen many people mention it, but, towards the end, when River was revealing that the Roman's were fake and Amy was crying and the creepy dramatic piano music was making you twitch for what was going to happen next... When Amy said she didn't know why she was crying, only that she was happy, did anyone, just for a second before the ending took over, start expecting Amy to turn evil and start cackling?!?

Just me then.

Right...
*

[Stripes]

Dear Moffat

The whole "I am River and I have a diary that tells the Doctor future is in my hand. I won't show it to you because that is a spoiler" was funny during the forest haunted library what ever they were called episodes.

Four episodes later, River shouting "SPOILERS!!!" is just not funny anymore and frankly, it is tiring. Think up some new jokes.

From a non Moffat fan,

Newton

WTF CLOCKET, this is not a spoiler!

[Stripes]

www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yk_bsgqhQTc

That should have been the music that played in the last few minutes... you know, that slow part... you know what i am talking about

[merrythemad]

oooh, I liked the music during the final few scenes, it lent a sense of helplessness without being all sad and saccharine...in fact, it kinda reminded me of the music at the end of the Incredible Hulk television show, sad and simple. It actually REALLY worked for me.

[Stripes]

It wasn't bad, though that part made me think of that song from LOST.

[Stripes]

Now I white out spoilers. Because these are bloody spoilers. I MEAN SPOILERS!!!!!

**The ending confused me. Do the evil villains want the universe to come to an end or are they trying to save it? Because if they are, I find this story line very funny. They spend all their time starting wars, killing creatures, taking over planets and generally flat out abusing the poor universe. Then, when a greater force threatens their universe, the evil villains can't help but be protective of their universe. I have this mental image of a Cybermen holding the universe real tight with one arm and using another arm to slap some black creature away.

It's like Moffat deiced to write some crack fic. MORE CRACK FIC PLEASE!!!

That or the villains, like humans, are afraid of dying.

Also, I didn't see the Van Gogh (I love how the Doctor calls him van GOLF) as some sort of prophet. I think the villains gave that image to van GOLF. They had this all planed out and frankly, it is a smart plan.

I like stories where the bad guys become good. It shows that everybody has some good in them, even if their goodness wasn’t intently good.

Now the cybermen part that tried to make a new body, I did not like it. I just sat there in a real WTF WTF WTF mode. They have never done that in the past and frankly if all cybermen did that, then the whole universe would be cybermen by now.

I also truly believe that cyberman have emotions… well new who cybermen do. You see it in “The Next Doctor” and you can sort of see it when the leader cybermen is talking to the Doctor. He almost had this “DOCTOR, OU GOTTA GO IN THE BOX , DOCTOR. I DON’T WANNA DIE, I LIKE THIS UNIVERSE SORRY MAN. Maybe we’ll chill sometime?


For some reason why I think of a the cyberman talking causaulyy, hear there voices talking in a gangster tone.
the daleks have yuppie voices and the potato heads are the type you would see at sports bars, big and musclely and ready to start a fight while singing loud soccer tunes.

... Right, now I am off topic **

SPOILERS!!! You know what, I am starting to see why River likes to yell SPOILERS all the time, it's kind of fun.

ALSO, because I like spamming

**In the crowd of evil things, did anyone notice the red fish dude from Torchwood?

[librarylover]

Ok, I promised AbbyRomana that I would post my theory about what is going to happen, so here goes. HERE BE SPOILERS . . .

** This theory is based largely on one line from episode 12, clues from previous episodes, plus Moffat's fascination with Timey Wimeyness. When River was at Amy's house she was looking at the dolls and pictures of the Doctor that Amy had made as a child, and she said, "Oh Doctor, sometimes I wonder why I let you out." Ok, here's the probably cracky theory:

A younger version of River is exploring Stonehenge, discovers the Pandorica, and figures out how to open it, which releases the Doctor. In fact, I bet this is how she meets him originally. (Rampant speculation, what if she needs his name to open it, and that is why some version of the Doctor tells her his name?)

River's apology to the Doctor for not being able to prevent the TARDIS from exploding was because she was trying to change events to prevent him from being locked in the box for however many years he was locked away. This is the same reason she tried to convince him to run; she already knows how this is going to play out, and is trying to save him the horror of being locked up. If she didn't know the box was empty would she really have tried to convince the Doctor to run, when he would need to save the universe from something potentially evil coming out of it?

We were meant to assume that the scene where River was buying the time vortex manipulator was right after she escaped from Stormcage Prison, but what if it was actually a younger version of her, acquiring the manipulator to give herself and the Doctor a means of time traveling without the TARDIS?

Perhaps the Doctor uses the vortex manipulator to travel back along his own time line to try to save the TARDIS. He visits Amy in the forest inside the Byzantium and tells her that she needs to remember what he told her when she was a child. What he told her was how to save the TARDIS. Since the whole scenario was playing out according to her memories and imagination, he might have told her how to prevent the TARDIS from exploding and fracturing the multiverse. He could have gotten there either by manipulator, or by TARDIS. Stick with me.

After telling Amy she needs to remember, he goes back to the night he first met her, and tells her the thing she needs to remember. Remember the brief flash of a scene from the Eleventh Hour when we heard the TARDIS landing noise, and little Amelia was sitting in the garden waiting for him and looked up? What if that was him coming to tell her. Now this could either be after the TARDIS has been saved and he is mopping up loose ends to prevent a paradox, or (and this is really cracky) what if he and River found a previous incarnation of the Doctor and convinced him to give them a ride? What if the many glimpses of previous Doctors this season weren't just fanw*nk, but were actually clues that we would see a previous Doctor? In fact, I think it could be Ten. In the Library River asks Ten, "Have we done the Byzantium yet?" Since that was Eleven, why would she ask Ten that, unless he was there? What if he gave them a ride to go back to talk to Amy, and then back to tell Amelia how to save the TARDIS? This all happened between Waters of Mars and The End of Time. Maybe this is when he named a galaxy Allison. (BTW if this is true and DT actually appears in the finale it will be the greatest coverup job of all time! I don't know that they would actually have DT in it though, when they knew they were going to have an uphill battle to get the fans to accept a new Doctor.)

My theory about the creepy voice saying "Silence will fall" is that it is the Trickster. I don't know how it will play out in terms of Amy and Rory surviving, but it seems like a very Trickster-like scenario. My next suspect would be the Black Guardian.

By the end River will be getting taken back to Stormcage in handcuffs. This explains her comment at the end of Flesh and Stone about it always ending this way with them. After all, she wouldn't have known about the handcuffs in Forest of the Dead yet, so there had to be another incident with handcuffs.

So that's it . . . let the mocking begin! **

[clocketpatch]

Oooo, the Trickster. You know, I like that. I like that a lot. I hadn't thought of him (it??!) at all, because he's such a SJA character, but he did make some not-at-all veiled threats to Ten that time (and, okay, yes, he was just dropping vague hints for EOT, but now I want to rewatch...) though, still, I somehow highly doubt the Moff would involve a spin-off villain when there's been such a drive for fresh starts and new viewership this series; it would be very self-defeating.

I like this idea of River too. And I wonder if this is what she means when she said that she killed the best man she'd ever met... because I don't think she kills the Doctor, or even makes him regenerate (unless the Moff has Matt's tenure planned out waaayyyy in advance, which, I guess, I shouldn't put past him) but there are many ways to 'die' and I've got the worst feeling that this isn't going to end well for Eleven. I mean, I'm sure he'll be fine(ish) by the end... but he just looked so scared in Flesh and Stone. The way his eyes kept drifting off screen... and his hands were all scratched up... *sad face*

It wasn't a production error either. Matty Boy accidentally gave up the game saying (somewhere, my sources are mixed) but that scenes for the finale were being filmed simultaneously with most of the episodes. And that one of those scenes is, in fact, in Flesh and Stone. Jacket!Doc is real.

And I'm going to die before Saturday. The suspense, it is AWFUL!

[merrythemad]

TWO minute preview link:http://www.bscreview.com/2010/06/doctor-who-big-bang-season-finale-clip/ something else it out there for Brits but I haven't found a non-brit friendly link as yet

[Stripes]

I saw spoilers... this is what i get when i go looking for them. i wish didn't. I had gone almost a whole season spoiler free.

[jjpor]

I am struggling hard to stay spoiler-free this week...even though the temptation to go searching is great indeed... At the moment, I'm just about managing it. Just...

[clocketpatch]

I think I saw a major spoiler, but I'm pretending I didn't, and since I have no idea how said spoiler even works (and since the version in my head is better anyway) I'm just disregarding it.

[jjpor]

Is it something I should be frightened of/appalled at, or will it work out all right in the end, do you think? (Don't tell me what it is, though, even whited out, because I know I WOULD highlight it... )

[clocketpatch]

Aw, no, actually, it's something I kind of thought would be happening anyway, and logically, it makes sense... yeah, I can see how it would happen, ish. The logistics, not sure.

\/ not really a spoiler, (you can safely highlight it JJ)

I just like my mental image of wee!Amy reviving a half-mad Eleven with fish sticks and custard. I'm sticking with it until the actual episode airs because in my head it is adorkable.

*