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Susan
Oct 10, 2009 23:07:37 GMT
Post by Maggadin on Oct 10, 2009 23:07:37 GMT
I thought I was crying shame that the Doctor's grandaughter, and member of the original Team TARDIS, didn't have a thread of her very own. So now she does.
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Susan
Oct 12, 2009 18:25:35 GMT
Post by merrythemad on Oct 12, 2009 18:25:35 GMT
umm, well, she falls a lot, and thanks to LL, everytime I fall I feel the need to shout out "Grandfather!"
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Susan
Oct 12, 2009 22:07:43 GMT
Post by librarylover on Oct 12, 2009 22:07:43 GMT
umm, well, she falls a lot, and thanks to LL, everytime I fall I feel the need to shout out "Grandfather!" Ah, #5 on the top 12 signs you are obssessed with Doctor Who.
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Stacey
UNIT Red Shirt
Posts: 146
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Susan
Oct 13, 2009 9:16:49 GMT
Post by Stacey on Oct 13, 2009 9:16:49 GMT
I don't really like her. She's a bit useless
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Susan
Oct 13, 2009 21:28:35 GMT
Post by merrythemad on Oct 13, 2009 21:28:35 GMT
she's not useless she is usefulness-challenged
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Susan
Oct 13, 2009 21:41:39 GMT
Post by jjpor on Oct 13, 2009 21:41:39 GMT
Weak ankles...wonder if she inherited those off her granddad? ;D
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Susan
Oct 14, 2009 1:09:56 GMT
Post by librarylover on Oct 14, 2009 1:09:56 GMT
To be fair, I think she was mainly the victim of early 1960's thinking about how to use females in drama. The sad thing is there are a lot of ways that they could have made her more interesting. But then it wouldn't be as much fun to mock her for her excellent lungs and her balance issues.
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Susan
Oct 14, 2009 5:02:22 GMT
Post by IMForeman on Oct 14, 2009 5:02:22 GMT
Considering how Susan is in the pilot, and from what Carole Ann Ford has said, it seems like Susan was originally supposed to be much more alien and strange and then got shifted into the role of typical teenage girl. Which is a shame, really, even though I can understand why they would have done that. I'm not that fond of Susan, but I'm fascinated by the concept of her character, mainly that she's the Doctor's only blood relative that we've seen. Also greatly looking forward to her return in the BFA that's coming out with Eight, An Earthy Child.
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Susan
Oct 14, 2009 22:06:23 GMT
Post by jjpor on Oct 14, 2009 22:06:23 GMT
Oh yeah, I mean in the pilot she's downright creepy at times. I think LL is right and that it might have something to do with a 60s TV view of the kind of roles young women could fulfil, and also probably because they wanted an audience-identification figure considering that the original premise of the show was that it was supposed to teach kids about science and history (until the first Dalek reared its ugly sink-plunger!). So, Susan's character went down a different path, and after she'd gone they tried out a couple of Susan-substitutes like Vicki in the same sort of role. But yes, a fascinating character in concept if not always in practice, because she is the only real link to the Doctor's mysterious (because it doesn't exist until someone is misguided enough to try to make it up - Andrew Cartmel! ;D) back story.
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lostspook
Auton Daisy
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Posts: 503
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Susan
Oct 15, 2009 20:23:37 GMT
Post by lostspook on Oct 15, 2009 20:23:37 GMT
Okay Susan: I have come to like her, but seeing her first as a teenager, I could not get over the screaming. I don't think anything quite prepares you for hysterical Susan. I've come to erm, well, appreciate it, especially when she also waves scissors about, though. I suppose whatever she and her Grandfather went through, it was tough, and they only had each other. Whether that excuses shrieking every time a rock so much as bounces off the TARDIS, I don't know. But Vicki: Vicki is not a Susan-substitute. How could you, JJ? Vicki is just wonderful. I love the way she and the First Doctor are kindred spirits with their shared slight anarchism and love of adventure. Dodo is a Susan substitute, acknowledged on and off-screen. Vicki is a Susan replacement. She's a lot of fun and often overlooked in the roll call of companions.
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Susan
Oct 15, 2009 22:38:29 GMT
Post by jjpor on Oct 15, 2009 22:38:29 GMT
Yeah, I guess Susan's what they call highly strung... ;D Yeah, the, er, whatever, she and her granddad went through (my crazy private fanon says it somehow involved the rise and fall of old Morbius) left its mark. Just keep her away from sharp objects and uneven surfaces, and she'll be fine...
Sorry for being so dismissive of Vicki, lostspook; I'll admit it's a good while since I watched any of hers, so I'll have to check 'em out again some time. I suppose I'll have to write Vicki-fic now to make amends, will I? ;D
But yeah, Dodo...I mean, they just shuffled her off into the background and then, like, abandoned her...
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lostspook
Auton Daisy
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Posts: 503
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Susan
Oct 16, 2009 16:26:46 GMT
Post by lostspook on Oct 16, 2009 16:26:46 GMT
I should probably give Vicki a thread if she hasn't one, shouldn't I? It's things like her dismissal of Ian and Barbara as old and boring - but not the Doctor! And the poisoning in the Romans and the way she throws herself into everything she does. She gives aliens cute names, too. (And why does she have to be a boy? And she didn't know the Beatles played classical music.) And the leaving: Cressida? Cressida, Troilus and Diomedes? What's going on there? :lol: (Steven, care to comment?) I wish they'd find that. (Admittedly, I wish they'd find pretty much everything, but still). But Poor Old Dodo. Susan-substitute, one of the worst arriving scenes, not even granted a leaving scene and nobody can make up their mind what accent she's allowed to have. No wonder Jackie Lane didn't stay long. Mind you, she's quite fun in The Gunfighters. (When she falls victim to "every cliche in the Old West!" and threatens to shoot people before fainting.) And as for spin-offs... Poor girl. Susan is good at seeming not quite normal, so kudos to Carole Ann Ford for that. She can be very not-human - and I like her telepathy and growing-up bits in The Sensorites (the show that proves you should never let Barbara have two weeks off ).
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lostspook
Auton Daisy
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Posts: 503
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Susan
Oct 16, 2009 16:29:48 GMT
Post by lostspook on Oct 16, 2009 16:29:48 GMT
Oh: Vicki-fic? ;D
Yes, please. But only after all the other things we've asked for and you've finished the first draft of your novel. :lol:
(Basically, Vicki-fic, Susan-fic, Dodo-fic, I'd be happy to read any of it. I like B&W era DW).
Sorry, Susan for sort of hi-jacking the thread.
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Susan
Dec 9, 2011 0:51:19 GMT
Post by timedalek on Dec 9, 2011 0:51:19 GMT
Like I said back in. The First Doctor thread. Yes her screaming did brother me. But mind you Susan did at times. Become a help. 1.In the pilot episode. She made the flaming skull. That gave lan an idea. 2.It was her bought the anti-radiation drugs. She also had to go though a dark forest. Come on that toke guts to do. 3.Susan's strong telepathy mind. Helped the sensorites.
So yes Susan did scream a lot. Proved to be helpful at times. And plus I've gone used to her screaming at the end. And you have to gave credit Carol. She know how to scream!
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Susan
Dec 9, 2011 1:06:22 GMT
Post by Maggadin on Dec 9, 2011 1:06:22 GMT
Revisiting this thread has made me think about the whole icky issue of 'Strong Female Characters'. The post about 'females in 1960's drama' made me think ''But, really, are things better now, in all ways?'' Some things have improved, yes, but I think Who has actually regressed in some ways when it comes to female empowerment. For examples, the lives of NuWho women tend to revolve around the Doctor much more intensely and they have much less agency, in some ways. He's become the knight on the white horse (literally, that one time). Also, why is it that Strong Female Character = Woman who shoots stuff a lot and other stereotypically 'masculine' acts? Not saying those thing cannot ALSO be empowering, but why is the 'feminine' automatically devalued?
No, I'm not doing an essay on this subject, why do you ask except for the part where totally might be
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kirkg
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Posts: 442
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Susan
Dec 9, 2011 3:45:16 GMT
Post by kirkg on Dec 9, 2011 3:45:16 GMT
To be fair, I think she was mainly the victim of early 1960's thinking about how to use females in drama. The sad thing is there are a lot of ways that they could have made her more interesting. But then it wouldn't be as much fun to mock her for her excellent lungs and her balance issues. This was a most common problem in many media. Over in the comic book world, the role for a woman frequently was to be taken hostage, or to break down and cry. Stan Lee had a particularly difficult time writing any woman who was more than two dimensional. "Oh Bruce... why can't we be together?"
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Susan
Dec 9, 2011 19:22:54 GMT
Post by timedalek on Dec 9, 2011 19:22:54 GMT
Yeah I notice a lot of that to. I one time even talked about it. First there where was the woman. Only made to scream fall in love and get kidnapped.(Just watch the old horror
movies.) Then there was the woman. Who got more stuff to do. And clothes to get the men watching. Then came the woman who know of today. Though some fans say. Now they trying to get the woman. To strong.
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Susan
Dec 10, 2011 16:15:57 GMT
Post by Maggadin on Dec 10, 2011 16:15:57 GMT
I don't think that they try to make them ''too strong''. I just mean that women in today's media don't necessarily have more ''strength'' or agency all the time, because they have to take on stereotypically ''masculine'' roles in order to be considered ''strong''. Also, I'd argue that female Who-characters are much more obsessed with the Doctor than the classic Who ones were.
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